Solution of Firo Price (Parallel Assets like or Redenomination?)

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Dear Firo Community,

Regarding discussion in Firo Trading group in Telegram, i make this thread.

I would like straight to the point.

As an investor, We are worried about Firo Price. We broke all of our support in Technical Analysis even though our Fundamental does amazing.

It surely majority of people don’t see privacy coins as it should be now.

However, there is not all the truth. For the past 2 years, it is as if we don’t grow at all in price! Just compare our prices today to 2 years ago when the bull market started. It is as Firo is just a pump and dump coins. And people who hold it for a long time is just losing hope in Firo.

This is a bad situation. Because To be truth, losing money is hard. People losing money, community losing money. If people are losing money, they would leave. And they will talk about it. It could be a really bad marketing. “Hey, i lose money on this project, do you really want to go for it?”. Sad. But it is real. And it could be a snowball effect which holds our grow for this entire time.

So for that, I do hope we find a solution.

From the discussion in Telegram thread, i wrap up two things that could be our solution

  1. We do like what Flux parallel assets does
  2. We redenominate like
    XEC 1:1000000 From 21 Million to 21 Trillion
    RVN 1:1000 From 21 Million to 21 Billion

The two of it does an amazing growth in terms of price and marketcap.

  1. Flux from 0.1$ to 2.x$ today (2000% up)
  2. XEC from 0.000015$ to 0.0003$(ATH) (2000% up)
    RVN from 0.015$ to 0.4$(ATH) (2000% up)

Reason of two of this model

  1. Flux can attracts Investor, VC, and others with their parallel assets models. Hence price up.
  2. “Ravencoin increased the coin cap from 21 million to 21 billion. This change is merely psychological (because you can divide cryptocurrency into ever smaller and smaller pieces), but it seems to be catching on.” Example of this coins are XEC, RVN. Other with the same principal coins is HOT, SHIB which have a good run last year. They broke the market with their smaller pieces. And it works. Hence price up.

Please kindly avoid talking about tech in here. Because as we know, we already in a very good state in our tech. And i believe we are a top tier in privacy tech. However, our price is sad.

I would like communities to think about our price seriously whether to choose between these two options. Because if we do as we always did for this past 2 years, it doesn’t work. I am not talking about tech, but price. Price indeed matters. Price can make us a bigger community, Price can make a good marketing, Price can attract people, Price can give us attention in crypto space and media, etc. If you say price doesn’t matter, i don’t know what to say to you.

Please kindly remember our time is short, We don’t know how long this bull market last. We really don’t want our price is like a pump and dump coins. We want a steady grows price up. We want our community to grow. We want Firo to success!!!

I just hope, before everything goes too late, we have to take an action. This is my 2 cents as a small fish in firo.

If i want to quote something, i will take this person quote who said this in Telegram and Redenomination Thread :

“The main thing I guess is how to make Firo survive, success and holders finally get rewarded. It really seems like anyone involved has been thru hell and back.”

“Increasing the total market cap should be one of the main goals. It is the cheapest marketing to bring more people to the community.
Also, a bigger market cap is better for privacy. which is one of the main features of firo.”

Thank you.

Similar thread : Redenomination Thread :

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Thanks for your feedback!

Just a quick one, Flux did NOT redenominate they more than doubled their max supply which is equivalent to saying like instead of 21 million Bitcoins there will be 44 million Bitcoins which is a major change. This is an effective dilution of existing holders which is partly mitigated by airdrops on other chains. The reason for increasing their supply is so they can have ‘parallel assets’ on other chains and also increases miner rewards.

Parallel assets on other chains are quite a simple solution. Firo issues wrapped Firo on other chains and uses the newly created supply to back these parallel assets. So for e.g. We create 1.2 million new ERC20 wFIRO on ETH. There’s a centralized bridge whereby those 1.2 million ERC20 wFIRO can be converted to native FIRO and this ‘backing’ comes from the newly created coins.

A redenomination is purely moving the decimal points.

I’m open to the idea. However note it’s not a purist move and does mean that supply can be changed with community approval (which some may feel is against the idea of cryptocurrency) and sets a precedent for tokenomics change. It’s not a bad idea actually and gives the project some additional legs to work on especially with combined with creating a FIRO dev fund reserve and removing or reducing the dev tax.

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I am not really against redenomination as there is no dilution, and can fo psychological trick of low price for new people to come.

But I don’t think it solves issue of pump and dump as for example if there will be gain 2000% (so your Firo portfolio will be worth 20x of current price) many people will sell which will cause dump.

If I look graph on XEC example you gave it is currently on 22% of ATH (78% decline), so although it could help holders before redenomination it doesn’t seems as solution against dumping.

I think that only real solution against low price is more vendor acceptance and lot of marketing (which in genuine project like Firo cannot be expected from core team as they simply don’t have budget like those ERC20 tokens where whole token with its whole circulation is created in few minutes and they can reserve part of it for such things).

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很高兴看到团队的领导们在探讨市值维护的问题，这将是解决firo重大转折的事件，支持所有firo的粉丝们积极参与firo价格的解决方案讨论，希望团队及团队的领导们能解决这个一直悬而未决的问题。

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First, have you read the previous thread and the arguments that I made?
You are now re-opening a thread without adding anything new to the discussion. I will make my previous arguments more concise.

  1. Firo (community) marketing bad, how do you market (communicate to the public) redenomination?
  2. Why not make coin supply smaller? (You want bigger market cap right?)
  3. Comparing Apples with apples, how are XMR, ZEC and other privacy protocols doing?
    For a more detailed description on why I am against, I urge you to read my previous posts.

Second, let’s say I am entertaining the idea of a redenomination. Please write up a marketing plan for the redenomination. Including goals, SWOT, budget, communication strategy, target market, strategy and tactics, etc. for the redenomination.
I don’t expect a full report of 35 pages, but at least put some minimal effort into a proposal. Also, the least you could have done was engage in the arguments that were put forward the last time.

Third, who bought RVN and XEC because of the redenominantion? Did you buy them because of the redenomination? You have created an imaginary persona. A fictional character who will be convinced to buy a coin due to a redenomination.

Fourth, I think you want an exit pump. You are hoping that a redenomination will lead to a pump so you can sell at break-even or minimise your losses.
If you truly think that a redenomination is the only way for this project to revert price action and achieve sustainable price growth, you are delusional and should sell now and take your losses.

I could go on but please elaborate on the points that I just made.

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The thing that really affects the price possitively is more adoption.

We need better tech and the team is doing well on this.
We need more merchants accepting FIRO
We need more hodlers with more education about FIRO

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I would support the proposal for redenomination for the purpose of making Firo an acceptable means for day to day transaction, not a Store of Value, but I don’t think it will greatly promote adoption. Good marketing will promote adoption in my own opinion.

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I think the title of this post should be changed to only include the Parallel assets suggestion - since the re-denomination has it’s own forum discussion (and it was discussed to death - confused a lot of people - and nothing much has changed since then - but if anything has the discussion should be in that topic not this one).
Having said all that - I think the idea of parallel assets may benefit Firo - but there has to be more information provided as to how the process works, what are the benefits and risks, and why it might be useful for Firo to head in that direction.

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Agree with you, sometimes it sounds like desire for exit pump

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Yes, without real adoption everything is just bubble.

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I really hate your words. You accuse me that i want an exit pump. Ok i will tell you that i just sold firo yesterday because of your bad words to me. Yes i sell it at the bottom. I lost both money and time in firo. Thanks for that

We just want Firo to be success. Then i will ask you this, what should we do to make firo success? Do you want this project to be as the way it is? I will tell you a fact, for this past 1477 days, firo can’t touch their ATH when it was zcoin. Even their 50%.

I just think that maybe this community still have their logical thinking. But your words and others makes me think. It is worse!

We need a change, a big one. Nothing big happens even if we in a bull market. We are just like any other old coins that already forgotten. Cannot do much in a bull market, crash hard in a bear market same as the others.

Monero still claws their existence as a first crypto privacy coins, have a big big community, some big investors that we know also on it. Zec still holds strong with their VC’s. You can’t compare us with them. It is not apple to apple. Do you want us to be big and have a bigger adoption?

Parallel assets offers adding utility, Redenomination offer usability and adoption with their smaller pieces. It is what we thinking as a solution.

Please kindly note that team have limited budget. And we understand that.

Then i back to ask you, what is your proposal to rise our price?

Really hate your words, i thought as a community we still have a rational thinking. But it is harsh. Unhelpful, and fully of delutional and degen people. Price up 20% and they say firo to 500$, price down 10%, we are going to 1$. In reality they just took profit and left. They don’t care anymore about us.

Maybe tony was right. I should have heard him a year ago.

I think this is my part with this project. I am sorry Reuben, this is my last post. To push this proposal is mean to be hated. And i hate it.

But i can say confidently to you, that it will be hard to make firo valuable if we stay like this. To survive, firo need a big change. Same old school style wont work. Our chart tells that.

Sometimes we need a leap, ignore what small noise says, we cant satisfy all of the persons.

I remembered when a year ago i defended community from that seed investor. Now i regret it. It backlashed to me. Karma is real.

It is just lonacke said 170$ to 3$ is joke. We are being asked what is your suggestion? And this is what we got.

We need a total change. Even in our community itself. It is already toxic.

People lose their hard earned money. Holders lose money and time. Even i hesitant to reccomend this project. What can i reccomend it to them? This project tech is good, but prepare to lose a lot of money. No one wants that.

We just don’t want to learn. Thats it. Thats the tea.

Whether this proposal accepted or not is not my concern anymore. I have no ulterior motives, trully. I just hope this project to be success, but maybe you will not hear it. Or don’t want it to happens.

Good luck for the team. Thanks for all your hard work all of this time. 2016 when gary le was bank running us, 2017 when zcoin was hot on bittrex, 2018 to 2020 when holders is in crypto winter, 2021 when tim and gang was around including with rebranding and lelantus and lot of things. Now in 2022 i just sold my firo. What a history.

I hope you all doing well and good.

Bye.

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Alright, guys. Everyone should take a moment to step back and let cooler heads prevail. It is easy to get worked up about things being said - I get that from time to time catching up on the Price/Trade channel haha. Things are rough, everybody is tense, people are decently polarized about how they feel Firo should be or what the direction should be. I’m certainly guilty of this myself! We as a community do need to be careful about how we treat other community members - what accusations may be thrown around. It is all too easy in the heat of the moment to say things that are inflammatory.

As a community coin, it is important for discussions to occur in the community - proposals or otherwise - and that the community discuss these topics with respect and their fellow community members. Something we all can easily mess up when we get a little hot under the collar. Perhaps the topic has been discussed previously, but what may have been the case then maybe different from now! Perhaps a redenomination was bad for that time, but perhaps it is good for now. Or perhaps it isn’t. There is no reason it should not be discussed with dignity and respect.

I’m sorry that you feel it has come to this point, GoReady. Firo doesn’t want to lose a member of the community, and I hope that you will see this post and reconsider. As explained above, we’re all fallible and can certainly fall short of what is ideal in a community. It would be tragic for these differences in opinions to be an endnote. As you say, everyone here wants Firo to succeed, but it is clear across the board everyone has different ideas as to what will get us there (and perhaps even differences in opinion about what success is!). This is healthy for a community, but it also means we may ruffle each other’s feathers from time to time.

FiroFam really is like a family, and just like a family we all have a tendency to get on each other’s nerves - or have disagreements on things about the family (even petty ones), and at times having discussions like this are like talking politics and money at a holiday dinner. Of course, when given some time to calm down and mull over - just like a family - we can all come back together and continue being family. So, anyone who has gotten riled up, feathers ruffled, or irritated I hope you take a step back to reconsider, cool down, and then we can continue having respectful, constructive, and civil discourse over such topics!

On that note, I think Zed is right: this thread should be used to cover Parallel Assets and the redenomination discussion should simply be continued over in the old thread. This way we can keep the communication clear. :slight_smile:

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First of all, if my post comes across as me hating you or any other person sees my post as an attack, I apologize. It was not meant as that. After reading it back I can understand that maybe point four could be read as that.
I will break down the points you have made, if I am misinterpreting something please correct me.

  1. We are in a bull market, Firo is still in bear market and forgotten
  2. Monero and Zec cannot be compared to Firo because of VC
  3. Parallel assets offers utility
  4. Redenomination offers usability and adoption
  5. Limited budget
  6. Every small increase in price is fuelled with hopium and encourages fomo
  7. Firo needs big change
  8. What is my (Sonic Blastman) suggestion

1One. We are indeed in a bull market. However I would like to add that we are in a bull market for store of value, defi, nft and smart contracts. Privacy has not been part of this cycle. Payments have not been part of this cycle. I know it hurts to see projects pump but it is what it is. The narrative is not in Firo or any other privacy/payments protocols favor.

  1. I would disagree with on the basis that Xmr nor Zec have not pumped significantly. Xmr is the only one that came close to breaking its previous ath in usd terms. Zec is not even close considering it had an ath of almost 900 usd. The same goes for most of the other privacy and payment coins, they are not even close to breaking their previous ath. VC have not had a significant impact on this, in my opinion. The narrative is just not there.

  2. Flux parallel asset bring an enormous amount of centralisation. I may be wrong about this and correct me if I am wrong. If this is what the community wants then I think that funds should be allocated towards it. But at least bring arguments to the table as to why you think it is a good idea and why the tradeoffs are acceptable. Because there are tradeoffs.

  3. I have not heard a single argument on how it offers usability and adoption. Again I could be wrong on this. But as to why it would bring adoption and usability, the only argument that has been put on the table is that “I am unable to see it”. Explain to me what I am not seeing. Convince me that I am wrong. If I were to guess what the argument would be, it would be number bias. Having a lot of coins in your wallet. I don’t think that is the argument why those coins have pumped. I think the reason is because there are a lot of very good shillers. Hence why the redenomination comes across, at least to me, as a quick pump and dump. I do not see any longterm value into doing a redenomination at this point in time for Firo. As I have mentioned in my previous post in the other topic please explain to me what I am missing.

  4. For all of the above points the limit budget comes into play. If the team is going to put resources into one of these things, it means that they won’t be able to work on other things. Hence why my words may come across as harsh. Especially since the topic of redenomination has been opened before. The project is dumping, people are losing money, people are frustrated because they see other projects pumping and if they had just put their money in that project they would be better off.
    So in the case that Parallel or redenomination are going to be on the roadmap, lets make sure that the tradeoff is well worth it. Because in essence you are asking the team to drop what they are working on now and switch to developing Parallel and/or redenomination.

  5. I agree, which is one of the things I liked about Xmr in the beginning. The slogan was “don’t buy monero”. No hopium, no fomo encouragement. Also that exact fomo encouragement is adding fuel to the fire which makes it even more frustrating for people. Just to be clear I have lost quite a lot of money in Firo. But for me it is ok because on a principal basis I think that privacy is an important property to have and that needs to be developed in this space. I am an 80/20 in this, 80% ideological and 20% financial.

  6. And here is where I think the most important thing is for most of the people. As mentioned in point 1, privacy is not the narrative. The big change that you (people) want, is that parallel assets? Redenomination? The question boils down to this, does Firo stick on the privacy narrative or does it deviate from that and develop something else and turn the project into something else. There is no quick fix in that regards.

  7. I have no suggestion as of this moment in regards to where the project should go. From what I gather, there is a big update coming around the corner in regards to Sparks and Poramin is working on Elysium. I want those milestones to be reached with succes. I think that with the completion of these milestones this project will be able to contest the market leader in regards to privacy, which is Xmr.
    I think that if you want to attract people to Firo (including VC’s), Firo needs to have a USP and I think those milestones could be able to convince people to look in to the project and see a project that can clear milestones on their roadmap and is not easily distracted with keeping up with Jones.

Now I can understand why you are mad because of price but please understand my position as well. I bought a privacy coin. I have not sold because I see some amazing work is being done. I see two proposals with the argument “this coin did this and it pumped and that coin did that and it pumped”. Let’s be honest, that is not the main reason that it pumped. It got spread by people on messageboards, private and public telegram channels, forums, family and friends, etc.
To be fair, I am not very afraid. I think the narrative will change into privacy and when that happens I think the development that has been made will pay off and the team will get a lot of recognition. The only problem that could happen is deviating from roadmap or that we are not loud enough when the narrative changes and that we will be over shouted by other projects. But even then I think the money cycle will flow into all the privacy protocols.

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I can understand that people are not happy with the current downturn in crypto prices - but lets face it - it isn’t just FIro, and it isn’t the team’s fault, and there’s nothing they can do to fix this in the short term. Rather than put negative energy into having disagreements within the community - I would suggest that the energy be put into positive suggestions on changes that could be made to the Firo ecosystem that will put Firo into a position that it can take advantage of market increases and crypto evolution in the future. This may take months or years to achieve - however - anyone who really believes in Firo is here for the long term - and I think the wait will be well worth the time - to see industry leading innovations come to fruition - have a coin that will provide true end-to-end security and privacy - while also potentially being the platform that other coins could use for their privacy needs is very exciting and something to look forward to. This won’t happen overnight - and will take some time - and we can’t lose focus on the team delivering Spark and other items on the roadmap. Firo (and Zcoin) has gone though some tough times - I won’t go into details since most people are aware of the difficulties - but having overcome all these difficulties has only made the team and the community even stronger and more focused on the ultimate goals.

I think when cooler heads prevail - that people will take their energy and come up with some interesting ideas to improve Firo. Not all the ideas will be good - and some will be bad - but all it takes is a few good ideas and the team and the community can change Firo’s future.

Personally - I think the idea of Parallel Assets could have a very positive impact on Firo - but I need more information on what the options are, the risks, and efforts of setting up this kind of environment.

Firo still has the potential to be one of the best coins - with a lot of good decisions and a lot of hard work.

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Parallel assets is one of the ways to make good use of the coin. But I think if there is any other creative ways to make Firo stand out from the crowd?

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I think the biggest problem is competition from Monero and Zcash that took most of the market share, left breadcrumbs for Firo and other privacy coins. Need to do something different to increase popularity and usability.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/coinjournal.net/news/10-best-privacy-coins-in-2022/amp/

With many other privacy coins offering smart contracts, digital assets token, parallel asset tokens, I am not sure how Firo is any different from them.

Just my question, of course we can be optimistic, we all hope that the steps taken can produce the results we want without compromising much the initial ideals of crypto and to help community level adoption.

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Firo needs to change. Small denomination currency is easier to be accepted by new investors. After marketing, some videos can be translated into different languages to teach people how to operate FIRO for payment.

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In addition, I have a suggestion, mainly to increase the audience. After the population base is large, capital will be interested in. We can organize an education system and form a core promotion team of about 5 people in each country to spread the propaganda and use of FIRO in the local country. All kinds of our updated technology and use methods through text and video promotion. (The foundation gives volunteers a small financial compensation.)

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I think that only real solution against low price is more vendor acceptance and lot of marketing.

This is what needs to be focused on. Plus getting Firo listed on more exchanges.

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