[Poll] Should Firo have a tail emission?

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PS: This topic is recreated due to an error in making the poll.

This is a first in a series of polls to determine the monetary policy/tokenomics of Firo with the upcoming halving.

Don’t forget to vote in the other two polls:
[Poll] Should Firo continue its Development Fund and Community Fund?
[Poll] Should Firo keep its halving schedule or should we revisit our emission curve?

Firo currently has a capped max supply of 21.4 million that emulates Bitcoin. This means that once the last Firo is mined, miners are expected to be rewarded purely through transaction fees while masternodes do not for the moment have . Some have the opinion that miners/masternodes need incentives beyond fees alone to secure the chain and prevent a collapse of the network especially during times where transaction volumes are low.

This is not the first time the community has discussed this but this is the first time we are having a poll. There are many detailed write-ups in these posts and considerations which are still relevant:

However other currencies do have a tail emission that ensures there is a minimum security reward. For example, Monero has a tail emission of 0.6 XMR per block in perpetuity. Ethereum and Grin also have some form of perpetual emission.

While some may say this is against the concept of ‘hard money’, I quote the following from the excellent writeup from John Tromp:

One of the pitfalls of monetary inflation in fiat currencies is governments can inflate the monetary supply on a whim. This has been used to disastrous effect throughout history. A non-sovereign, open source, consensus based currency solves this issue by making the emission policy well known ahead of time, and makes it difficult if not impossible to change.

Introducing a tail emission does not violate this and the core team also believes it’s necessary to tackle this earlier rather than when the problem arises.

This poll does not decide the amount of this tail emission but we expect it not to exceed 2% p.a. of supply when the tail emission kicks in. The final figure will be decided in the second round of polls. For reference, gold has had a steady 1.5-2% p.a. inflation for the past decade.

Note: While optional, we strongly recommend writing the reason of how you voted to better understand the community sentiment.

Should Firo have a tail emission?
  • Yes, it should have a tail emission.
  • No, fixed supply only.
0 voters
2 Likes

In order for a crypto coin to be successfully used as currency (which is the primary goal for Firo) you have to ensure that transaction fees remain reasonable. The fees for Bitcoin and Etherium have gotten so out of touch with reality that neither of these coins can be used for ‘normal’ transactions - and the coins have evolved into investment or store of value only use cases. Coins like Monero have learned from this mistake and have some form of Tail Emission. For Firo tail emissions would help to ensure that Firo’s transaction fees remain reasonable and would help to ensure that the Firo network remains stable by providing a known minimum value for each block mined by miners and processed by Master Nodes - the small transaction fees would be an added bonus for blocks that are processed.

4 Likes

As long as it’s fixed and not variable depending on network congestion, and it provides what Zed indicates above, I’m for it. I hate that when I introduce someone to bitcoin and ethereum, they get pissed off at fees and rage quit crypto.

2 Likes

As a long-term holder, I don’t want to find that the price is getting lower and lower due to inflation after holding it for ten years. Inflationary tokens have no long-term holding value.

3 Likes

A <1% inflation rate doesn’t do that though and having a chain with low/no security is worse than any inflation.

4 Likes

I don’t think tail emissions help fees remain reasonable, but they provide a steady source of security and incentive to keep the network moving along.

Fees are expensive on Ethereum and Bitcoin because they are congested.

Dynamic blocks (which is separate from tail emissions) are a way for blocks to gradually increase in size when the network is congested. I believe there’s some interrelation between tail emissions enabling dynamic blocks but I have to admit I don’t understand it fully (still researching).

Tail emission guarantees that miners are always active, maintaining the security and stability of the network, even if transaction fees temporarily drop. By ensuring miners always receive some reward, tail emission helps stabilize the fee market. Miners are not solely dependent on transaction fees, which can be volatile.

5 Likes

This seems like we are discussing something that won’t be an issue for several decades. It seems like there are better things to focus on at the present. I am however particularly persuaded that stakers have no pressure to sell their coins while miners do. If more of the security rewards can go to stakers over miners, that seems like a good way to reduce sell pressure.

5 Likes

I agree there isn’t a direct correlation between tail emissions and fees - however - the point I was trying to make was without tail emissions the network would be less stable and fees would be more likely to spike like it does with BTC and ETH - that’s when miners don’t bother processing the blocks fast enough - since there’s no incentive to do so. I certainly agree with you that other things like dynamic blocks need to be looked at as a separate issue.

2 Likes

Yes Firo need small tail emission for FIRO survival

Firo need to think long term for 100+ years

2 Likes

I will also say that if Tail Emission is constant & fixed with great understanding & planning not only for short term but also for long term thinking

Firo need a small tail emission of about 0.4 Firo to compete with Monero 0.6 XMR

why this specific number ?

Due to Miner security & profit keeping in mind
Its lower then Monero & since Zcash only relying on on-chain payments, ZSA & coin voting to generate on-chain fees as security budget
Firo get to have extra defense with both payments, spark asset & coin voting & tail emission

POW GPU mining is the only Last Defense for privacy & censorship resistance
And we also have to keep in mind how Successful it has been in Monero & Grin

1 Like

If it’s not costly to implement, then why not deal with it now and get it out of the way?

Personally these longer term structural ‘issues’ don’t sit well with me. If it’s done now, later down the road it’l be harder to reverse. If it’s done later, it’l be harder to implement later down the road.

The above assumes community interference by bad actors, should Firo become big enough.

1 Like

I wouldn’t mind it being some small amount that would replace otherwise lost coins

1 Like

Yes, it seems that a tail emission helps ensure long-term security, stability, and usability.

1 Like

Why aren’t they rage-quit their banks though. My bank has way more outrageous fees mechanisms than BTC & ETH combined. My bank will also lock my accounts in case of short-term inactivity and will require a transaction (deposit preferably) in order to be usuable again, worst fee mechanism ever.

Where do you live? I haven’t ever had any experiences like that. I also never use anything banks provide that has fees. Only free Savings/Checking accounts. Hell, they pay me almost 5% interest on stuff in my Savings (SoFi).

Sounds like a US bank. They tend to suck…

If Firo will have a tail emission of 2% per year, why should I prefer Firo to gold, or stocks?

Gold suplly now 212,582 tons = 212582000000 grams

Which is 1 gram gold = currenly $75

Firo suplly 21.4 Million

Which is 1 firo = currenly $1.2

My quetions is, how many years need to firo supply to be same with gold supply by using tail emission ?

I think firo is more profittable than gold if someday many people using tech of firo and make high demand low supply, it gonna be make firo more than gold in the future.

1 Like

@Gungden @Mak Gold can be confiscated easily

Firo seed phrase in brain is much harder to confiscate

$5 wrench attack is still possible (which could be mitigated by 2A Rights)(only in US lol)

Perhaps you can get a hint from my name, VostoEmisio, derived from Esperanto for Tail Emission…

A tail emission is essential for the long-term security of the network. The minor inflation resulting from it is a small price to pay for securing the network, our tokens, and the project’s future. Miners need assurance to continue investing in the necessary infrastructure for mining. Therefore, I strongly believe Firo should implement it.

3 Likes