Hey guys, we know that a Kucoin listing has been requested by the community and we’ve been in touch with the Kucoin team and Firo has passed their due diligence and vetting.
They have offered us a discounted listing fee (low 6 figure amount) and deposit requirement (another low-mid 6 figure amount) which is refundable over time which I have checked with other projects and it’s actually quite a favourable (though still substantial) rate. The reason why I have not disclosed the exact figures is I’m not sure if I’m at liberty to do so.
While the core team can utilize its funds to list for this, it will exhaust all core team reserves leaving us in a vulnerable position which I do not think is wise. The Firo Community Fund at this point in time is insufficient and for the moment, fully utilized for the Spark audit.
A Kucoin listing is definitely interesting and would reduce reliance on Binance though it is unclear whether their policies will change with the rapid rise of regulation. A good example is what happened to us with the Huobi listing which we had sought donations for the listing fee and now with the delisting are unable to recover any of this.
The reason I bring this up is to let you know the situation and solicit feedback from the community on this and to show that the core team is always constantly listening to community feedback.
Personally, I have no need for listing on KuCoin.
My position is that we should not agree to pay for the listing: HuoBi is an illustration of this which was predictable of what not to do. Let’s learn from our past mistakes and don’t repeat them.
It is up to the exchanges to have an interest in listing FIRO and this only interest must be clear: that of their transaction fees.
Exchange transaction fees are proportional to the number of FIROs traded and the FIRO price. As always, is to worry about the price of FIRO first. When FIRO re-enters the TOP100, or even the TOP10 or TOP5, the exchanges will be happy to list us for free.
A definite maybe in the future. But not practical at this time.
Is there any possibility of a class action suit against Huobi to get our money back?
Personally I’d like to see a Kucoin Firo listing - but the price has to be right. Right now I have to trade some coins on Kucoin then transfer over to CoinEx to buy Firo - a lot more work - and CoinEx isn’t the greatest. Of course Kucoin may be forced into a KYC type issue like Binance was, and then I’m back to square-one and we paid for nothing. Seems like all the risk is on the Firo side and not the Kucoin side - any chance of further negotiation?
These days I want to stay out of the radar. I don’t trust any centralized exchange anymore, they’re complying with everything govs say and even giving client info to them.
Let’s wait to see how this crypto market evolves, as the winter comes the privacy projects will flourish
same here, i don
t trust centralized exchanges anymore. It would be nice to be there, but there is no need and we dont have the resources for it.
Imho, it would be way better to take the money and put it into liquidity pools to support decentralized solutions.
About KuCoin and its enslavement to the authorities: it seems that KuCoin has just blocked a large amount of bitcoin from Do Kwon (Luna).
This is really not the crypto philosophy, even less the philosophy of an anonymizable crypto, therefore of FIRO.
That may have something to do with the authorities chasing Do Kwon…
Autorities chasing Do Kwon is not concern KuCoin, not concern Bitcoin : KuCoin is perverting Bitcoin protocol by blocking these bitcoins.
KuCoin is not crypto friendly, but autorities friendly and autorities, even in developed countries are not allway respectful of the people, that is why cryptos was created, especcialy Bitcoin and Firo.
I think that it perfectly falls in the philosophy of crypto, especially Firo. Users are allowed to chose where and with whom they do business. You want to do business with someone who doesn’t comply with authorities? Fine. You want to do business with someone who follows and complies with authorities to the letter t and puts all the dots on the I’s, fine as well. It falls perfectly with the philosophy of an anonymous crypto.
Although I don’t do business with Kucoin, that doesn’t mean that someone else shouldn’t. It is up to that individual to decide for themselves.
It kind of sucks that we are in an environment where privacy is being scrutinised. If it was a couple of years back or even a year ago, I would say it is worth the risk. However now I am unable to make a decent risk assessment for this situation. A couple of questions that I have:
- How much will this thin the order books on current exchanges?
- What is the expected timeframe to be fully refunded?
- In case of regulations, will you get refunded or partially refunded?
- Is there a deadline, does the listing have an expiration date?
- How long do you expect to be in a vulnerable position due to exhausting funds?
I expect that most of the valuable information is part of the NDA. But I think by answering these questions you will be able to make a decent judgement call whether it is worth it, at this point in time, or not.
I am not preventing anyone from doing business with KuCoin.
I simply say:
-1: We must not maintain the perverse system where it is the coins that must pay to be listed: instead, we must work so that FIRO increases in value and that the exchanges list it for free.
-2: KuCoin allows itself to block funds from one of its customers, in this it does not respect the fundamental of crypto and even less that of anonymizable crypto, such as FIRO.
If someone wants to use KuCoin, that’s their choice.
But this choice does not exist: KuCoin refuses to list FIRO (without paying).
It is not up to the FIRO community to pay for people to have a choice of some specifics transactions between a KuCoin user and KuCoin : it’s a private matter.
I’m against FIRO community will pay for that (for the 2 reasons explained above).
On your points:
- The exchange listing fee has become, unfortunately, an industry standard as well as frontrunning by insiders. Aside from that, I think that being listed on more exchanges is a positive. It might have a positive effect on price.
- The fundamental point of crypto is to hold you own coins and not let them stay on an exchange. Not your keys not your coins. I think almost all centralised exchanges would freeze funds of customers if they believe they will be complicit in aiding criminal activity. I don’t think KuCoin is exclusive to this kind of behaviour. I would go as far to say that people should not have coins on an exchange they are not willing to lose them.
I don’t think the arguments you have provided are convincing enough to not do any business with KuCoin or considering the exchange listing fee. Furthermore the community has been vocal in the past on getting Firo on more exchanges. I think the current proposal should be taken seriously as exchange listings are difficult. However I think that the decision to pay or not pay the listing fee is to be decided based on the value added for Firo.
My opinion is leaning towards no-go due to point 2, 3 and 5. There is more regulations coming into the space and the future in that regards in quite uncertain.
On the other hand, if btc and this space in general doesn’t flourish with the news from the past few days, the space is going to zero. In Lebanon people robbing banks to get their own money, Credit Suisse on the brink of bankruptcy, Pound Sterling crashing and BoE bailout, Powell confirming CBDC’s will not be anonymous and there is so much more. If there was a dream scenario for this space this would be it. So getting exposure and being on as many exchanges as possible, centralised or decentralised, would be the route to take.
So…… Yeah…. I don’t really know what the best course of action would be in this case.
It would be awesome if KuCoin would list FIRO. KuCoin is the only CEX I use these days, since I “lost” all my Binance accounts (IP geolocation, blocking, KYC etc). It’s the only alternative with decent albeit not enough liquidity.
I assume that KuCoin is gaining more and more users since Binance increased their KYC and decreased their deposit/withdrawal limits for non-KYCed users. Limits are higher on KuCoin.
Paying a six figure (USD?) amount for a listing is crazy though.
I would not pay for that listing.
You don’t use TradeOgre? They have no KYC nor limits either.
I’m a bit concerned with KuCoin as I have seen delistings at a whim and the forfeiture of those deposits is very scary to me.
I did try out tradeogre. Wish there was more liquidity.
Did you manage to try FiroDEX?
I did use the DEX at least twice so far, also played with the BEP20 FIRO on pancakeswap. It’s good to have all those options.