Read my thread here: https://twitter.com/reubenyap/status/1514418859809603584
1 Like
I want to vote.
My discord account #6683
Upgrade me, please.
Thanks
Personally blaming miners on price action is a bad excuse.
Miners are not mining FIRO and dumping it and Iād be surprised if you could prove it.
There just isnāt enough money to be made mining FIRO. Whether they have nvidia cards or amd cards there are TONS of options that are more profitable, and many that donāt have the same price volitility of FIRO.
So it makes 0 sense that someone would mine FIRO just to dump the coins.
As of today FIRO is barely in the top 20 for most profitable coins to mine. NO ONE IS MINING IT TO DUMP THE COINS. They have at least 19 other options they could make more money on with more trading volume.
Trading volume on FIRO is like $900k a day and miners get like $7k a day. Even if 100% of the mined blocks were dumped every day it wouldnāt be enough to move the price down. Roughly 0.7% of the volume. @Zen 
My guess is people who still have hash pointed at it are mining as a spec play or as an enthusiasts.
Itās also very short sighted considering lots of miners will be looking for a new home in the near future.
ProgPoW gives FIRO a chance to be home for some of the spill over of older AMD cards, which means new USERS.
Privacy coins only have value if they are #1 PRIVATE and #2 HAVE LIQUIDITY.
Loading up loyal nodes ops with higher returns provides neither of those.
The reason XMR for instance is considered so private is because the massive number of txs actually helps obscure the network. Locking more coins up in nodes hurts that.
You know Iām only providing feedback to try to help out. I do not currently mine FIRO so Iāve got no monetary incentive to fight for mining rewards.
6 Likes
There are not many Firo miners? Where did they go? I thought they were loyal to the project. Has the number of masternodes decreased a lot? To the miners, lower Firo price means lower profit, so they have to sell more to pay the electric bill that cause Firo price falls further.Did you hear the number of BTC miners decreased for a long time? Only price rising can increase the profit of mining and incentive more miners to participate the project. And only price rising can bring more users.
I cited this argument in the original topic of the reward block distribution.
It is necessary to reflect on what this volume represents and in particular to dissociate the part of speculative trading (which globally is balanced between sale and purchase, except change in the FIRO fundamentals) and the part of pure sale, constituted mainly by those who obtain FIROs and sell them without ensuring the consideration at any time, ie the purchase (miners and dev-team).
There is also this moment the liquidity campaign which explodes the volume (and I contribute to it: my exchange volume is anormaly huge).
You insult me āā? Do you want me to insult you even more? Nothing easier @MeanHash
You are not a serious interlocutor.
Your arguments are dishonest and when I take the time to prove it to you, instead of acquiescing, you will look for other dishonest argumentsā¦
Your attitude is immature and you rot the topic.
MeanHash I completely agree with this views. As a miner and node holder I could argue that i would be better off with the increase in the MN rewards. I strongly advocate against it because I think adoption in the miners ecosystem will be so much more valuable for the project in the long run. Does anyone think eth would have been where it is today without the miners. Eth going POS is a great opportunity for Firo to gain the adoption that it needs.
The only reason I got master nodes is because of the mining component of the project. Even though I am not mining Firo at the moment, my rigs are set up to go on a moments notice. My 5GH of FiroPow would give me 5% of the network and I am a very small miner on eth. There are milions of people out there on ETH looking for a new home and Firo seamed as a great option. Most of us hate ETH yet we still mine it for the āprofitsā, yet we sell that eth to get more Firo. I strongly agree that most of the people that are currently mining Firo are enthusiasts since they could get more profit by mining something else. The privacy and decentralization of mining is something very unique and this are features this project wants to sell on.
P.S. : The reason us miners hate on ETH is not because it goes POS or not because of the EIP-1559, it is because the developers sold out to ASICS manufacturers.
3 Likes
Thatās interesting! Why do you think miners focus their hashrate on 2miners then?
Maybe because 2miners works great !
1 Like
So do all the other pools esp Mintpond and Woolypooly.
1 Like
Agree with that statement. Mintpond also provides one of the best consoles Iāve seen across all the mining pools Iāve used for the various coins Iāve mined. I would also have no problem with Woolypooly if Mintpond ever got too large.
Having followed the debate over a couple of months now, miners really canāt complain about whatever happens to mining rewards: as a group weāre failing to address the request to diversify mining pool hash rate. Itās a very reasonable request and should be trivial to satisfy IMO. Weāre basically the night security guard who sleeps on the job and then wonders why theyāre talking about firing us.
4 Likes
One of the reasons is that most of the available youtube content on how to mine firo points at 2miners.
If you check the hasrate on 2 miners you will see that top 10 miners are still very small 1-2GH, which means they only have a handful of rigs on Firo and the rest of the miners have only a few cards on it. They are probably spec mining, so I do not think this guys are the ones dumping firo.
A 2nd reason is that for example RaveOs which I am using gives you free mining if you mine on 2 miners, for me to mine on woolyPooly which I did with all my rigs for a few weeks was costing me more than 2miners, but I was solo mining and I fully understand the concept of decentralization. The guys running only a couple of gpus still need to be educated on the importance of that, like I once was.
And please keep in mind there are only 714 miners right now on 2miners, the opportunity ETH will bring is once in a lifetime I think, we are talking about tens of thousands of new miners new users of the network. Imagine those guys are all going to want to run at least one masternode and you resolved the decentralization of the masternodes as well, ironically with the miners. Firo right now needs only 20 guys like me to double the hashrate and resolve the 2miners temporary problem, which is not really a problem since the hashrate is so low.
My advice is do not alienate the miners before eth goes pos. Postpone this toughs for after and leave things the way they are, what miners do not like is uncertainty, make a plan and stick to it. You will not need a community fund once enough miners have adopted firo, you would be surprised how much a strong mining community can accomplish.
As for the MN holders, I run 50+ of them and I would not have a problem if the reward will actually go down, an adoption of tens of thousand of miners will make those nodes priceless even at 5% annual return.
1 Like
Youāre looking at it the wrong way. From a miner standpoint, Reuben is the customer. The customer is saying thereās a problem. Fix the problem or donāt be surprised when you/we lose his business.
Sure, thereās an ocean of miners out there. But at the same time youāre saying because of youtube videos, or because of slightly more profitability, or any number of things that have nothing to do with the Firo project that miners are willing to ignore the request re: hash rate distribution. Who cares how much hash rate is out there if the majority of them move in a herd to the #1 pool? Theyāve already demonstrated that they only care about the money: theyāre mining ETH currently for that exact reason. So thereās every reason for the project to be skeptical that a mass of miners being forced off ETH is going to behave any better than the small number currently engaged.
You talk about alienating miners but all evidence is that miners are alienating Firo.
3 Likes
I disagree with you here, I am mining eth right now as well, i get 40% more Firo. We are creating the buying pressure, the question is who is it really selling, it did not take me a lot of time to get 50k firo, and the only thing that is stopping me getting more is the uncertainty that Firo is really serious about POW and decentralization.
While I donāt have my hopes up for the ETH merge effect on PoW coins, I think it makes sense to wait a little for the merge to complete which will happen in the next couple of months.
It is going to be the biggest shift in hashrate ever seen for GPUs and it would be unwise to discount this.
I hope the Firo community understands this. Now if even after Eth merge, the situation doesnāt change, there arenāt any more excuses.
Iām still in favor of creating a community fund though.
Nicely said Reuben,
You guys and you leading the team have all the right ingredients to attract people like me to the network, there are thousands more siting on the sidelines, and we are aware we are going to mine at a loss once eth goes pos. I have done it with other projects as well at some point ETH,XMR, and I have lost confidence in them because of various reasons, price had nothing to do with it.
All the best.
Could you explain to me how miners create ābuying pressureā while mining does not require any purchase from Firo?
Maybe I misunderstoodā¦
We are mining ETH, and we are selling it to buy FIRO
The Ethereum team promised the switch to PoS as soon as ETH was launchedā¦ in January 2016.
For more than 6 years, the promise has been pushed back.
And while this change was scheduled for June, it has just been postponed. The transition from ETH to PoS poses almost insoluble technical problems because of choices made from the design of the project.
If FIRO waits for the transition from ETH to PoS to modify the block reward, this modification will be postponed as much as ETH. No one knows when ETH will transition to PoS, or even if it will ever.
FIRO canāt wait any longer to change its block-reward distribution : its price drops every month, every week and almost every day. The more it drops, the less people want to keep it, because to keep it is to lose money. It is vital and urgent for Firo to regain value.
Firo price has fallen by more than 98% in five years, I let you calculate what this represents per week and deduce what it costs you each week to wait for a possible switch from ETH to PoSā¦ and if ETH never switch to PoS, or make a forkā¦ or several forks ?
Good points, to be honest I do not think eth will go pos this year, but I am sure most of the gpu miners are going to be off it anyways. Most of the hash on eth right now is asics and it will not be long until it will no longer be the most profitable coin, hence why I think miners should be more incentivized to come over sooner than later.
My guess is 2miners themselves is mining FIRO at their own pool. .
Look at FLUX as an example. 2miners doesnāt pay out the additional rewards on Flux costing miners there 50% loss in rewards, but they are still the 4th biggest pool.
Iād assume some other 3rd party service ( maybe, mining rig rentals, etc) is mirroring their pools or 2miners is mining at their own pool.
I think also the slower block time on FIRO makes it more of a penalty when a new miner mines at a pool with less hashrate to miss a block.
Donāt misread the number of unique miners. 2miners might have 10+ wallets setup that they are mining to to hide that it is mostly their hash.
1 Like