请大家谈谈对Firo的看法和建议（Please share your views and suggestions on Firo）

General
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为了Firo项目的发展，请大家谈谈对Firo的看法与建议。

我先谈一下我对Firo的看法和建议：
1.从Firo的历史价格走势来看，Firo正走在价格归零的路上。每次BTC涨，Firo涨幅小于BTC的涨幅甚至下跌；每次BTC跌时，Firo的跌幅大于BTC的跌幅，长此以往，Firo的价格很可能会归零。
2.有人认为Firo下跌很多是好事，因为自己可以买入更多的Firo，这种想法是不可取的，因为价格下跌很多会导致团队没钱开发，导致价格进一步下跌，随着价格归零，买入者很可能会破产。
3.经常有人梦想：突然有个鲸鱼买入很多Firo，导致价格上升很多。这纯粹是个人幻想。首先，鲸鱼很可能注意不到Firo的存在，往往只有价格突然上涨很多或在长时间内累计上涨很多的项目才会引起鲸鱼的注意。其次，如果真有鲸鱼买Firo，那么许多年的价格走势就不是如今这样了。
4.大家经常会发现Firo项目存在这样或那样的问题，在我看来根本问题是：Firo价格低。Firo价格低导致团队没钱开发、没钱做广告、没钱与机构或平台合作推广Firo、没钱支持社区活动、社区成员不敢向亲朋好友推荐Firo（因为怕Firo价格下跌后自己被打）、…
5.如何提振Firo价格？短期内，要制定有利于价格上升的政策；长期来看，要提升用户数量。
制定有利于价格上升的政策有：（1）重大事项投票以币的数量决定胜负，而不是以人的数量决定胜负。这将鼓励人们买入更多Firo，以增加在投票时的影响力。（2）在区块奖励的分配上给节点、长期持有Firo币的人分配更多。这将鼓励人们长期持有Firo币，减少市场上Firo币的卖压。
提升用户数量的办法有：（1）增加Firo项目的系统备份（包括团队备份、领导人备份、软件备份、网站备份）。减少人们对团队成员万一被抓后项目无法继续生存的担忧。（2）增加Firo币与其他虚拟货币的去中心化转换方式。减少人们对Firo万一被中心化交易所下架后无法交易的担忧。（3）官网上给出“法币–Firo币–法币”的各种方式（特别是简易的方式）教程。（4）官网增加多语言显示，以便世界各地的人都可以很方便地了解Firo这个项目。（5）大量招聘各国的志愿者做Firo大使，帮忙在该国宣传、推广Firo、使该国有更多商店或平台接受Firo支付。（6）在官网建立全球各地接受Firo支付的商店或平台地图，以便人们在全球各地能很方便地查询到附近能够接受Firo支付的商店或平台。（7）团队主动地与全球各地知名度较大的购物平台、金融平台、支付平台联系，争取使他们接受Firo支付。（8）增加手机挖矿。从区块奖励中拿出一部分作为在线钱包的奖励，只要Firo手机钱包在线，就可以根据在线时长、一定时间内未移动Firo币的数量来获得一定的区块奖励分配。现在几乎每个人都有手机，通过手机挖矿可以扩大Firo的用户数量。（8）增加钱包（特别是手机钱包）的易用性，使人们使用Firo支付方便、快捷。(9)为其他虚拟货币提供隐私服务。比如利用智能合约，在某个地址中存入一定量的币A，就能在Firo的Elysium上产生代币FA, 转移FA时可以利用Spark增强隐私。交易使用Firo币作为gas，收取一定的交易费。这样可以增加Firo币的使用场景并能产生一定的手续费收入（该手续费收入可以经过大家讨论后按一定比例分配给miner、znodes、team、community）
6.关于重大事项投票的建议。Firo价格长期呈现弱势的主要原因是Firo的投资者逐渐离开、社区成员逐渐减少。所以当有投资者抱怨价格下跌时，我们不宜说：如果你不满意就卖出Firo并离开。如果这样做，只会导致更多人离开。为了团结大多数、避免社区分裂，既考虑到小额投资者的观点也考虑到大额投资者的话语权，所以我建议：重大事项投票时，按人数决胜的投票结果与按币数决胜的投票结果权重各占50%。如果按人数决胜的投票平台不止一个，可以取这几个平台投票结果的平均数作为人数决胜的投票结果。
For the development of the Firo project, please share your views and suggestions on Firo.

Let me first share my views and suggestions on Firo:

  1. From the historical price trend of Firo, it can be seen that Firo is on the path to zero price. Every time BTC rises, Firo’s increase is smaller than BTC’s increase or even falls; Every time BTC falls, Firo’s drop is greater than BTC’s drop, and over time, Firo’s price is likely to return to zero.
  2. Some people believe that a significant drop in Firo prices is a good thing because they can buy more Firo themselves. However, this idea is not advisable because a significant drop in prices can lead to the team running out of money to develop, resulting in further price drops. As the price returns to zero, buyers are likely to go bankrupt.
  3. People often dream that a whale suddenly buys a lot of Firo, causing the price to rise significantly. This is purely a personal fantasy. Firstly, whales may not notice the presence of Firo, and often only projects with sudden or cumulative price increases over a long period of time will attract the attention of whales. Secondly, if whales really buy Firo, the price trend over many years would not be like it is now.
  4. People often find various problems with the Firo project, and in my opinion, the fundamental issue is the low price of Firo. The low price of Firo has led to the team not having enough money to develop, advertise, collaborate with institutions or platforms to promote Firo, support community activities, and community members not being able to recommend Firo to their friends and family (because they are afraid of being beaten if Firo prices fall)
  5. How to boost Firo prices? In the short term, policies that are conducive to price increases should be formulated; In the long run, we need to increase the number of users.
    The policies that are conducive to price increases include: (1) voting on major issues is determined by the number of coins, not by the number of people. This will encourage people to buy more Firo to increase their influence during voting. (2) Allocate more block rewards to nodes and long-term holders of Firo coins. This will encourage people to hold Firo coins for the long term and reduce the selling pressure on Firo coins in the market.
    The methods to increase the number of users include: (1) adding system backups for the Firo project (including team backups, leader backups, software backups, and website backups). Reduce people’s concerns about the project’s inability to survive in case team members are caught. (2) Add decentralized conversion methods between Firo coin and other virtual currencies. Reduce people’s concerns about Firo being unable to trade in case it is taken down by a centralized exchange. (3) The official website provides tutorials on various ways (especially simple ones) of “fiat currency - Firo currency - fiat currency”. (4) Add multilingual display on the official website so that people from all over the world can easily understand the Firo project. (5) Recruiting a large number of volunteers from various countries as Firo ambassadors to help promote and advertise Firo in the country, and to encourage more stores or platforms to accept Firo payments. (6) Establish a global map of stores or platforms that accept Firo payments on the official website, so that people can easily find nearby stores or platforms that accept Firo payments around the world. (7) The team proactively contacted well-known shopping platforms, financial platforms, and payment platforms around the world, striving to make them accept Firo payments. (8) Increase mobile mining. Take out a portion of the block rewards as rewards for the online wallet. As long as the Firo mobile wallet is online, you can receive a certain block reward distribution based on the length of online time and the number of Firo coins that have not been moved within a certain period of time. Nowadays, almost everyone has a mobile phone, and mining through mobile phones can expand Firo’s user base. (8) Enhance the usability of wallets, especially mobile wallets, to make Firo payments convenient and fast for people. (9) Provide privacy services for other virtual currencies. For example, using smart contracts, depositing a certain amount of Coin A at a certain address can generate Token FA on Firo’s Elysium, and Spark can be used to enhance privacy when transferring FA. The transaction uses Firo coins as gas and charges a certain transaction fee. This can increase the usage scenarios of Firo coin and generate a certain amount of commission income (which can be distributed to miners according to a certain proportion after discussion) znodes、team、community）
  6. Suggestions on voting on major issues. The main reason for the long-term weakness of Firo prices is the gradual departure of Firo investors and the decreasing number of community members. So when investors complain about a price drop, we shouldn’t say: if you’re not satisfied, sell Firo and leave. If we do this, it will only lead to more people leaving. In order to unite the majority and avoid community division, taking into account both the views of small investors and the voice of large investors, I suggest that when voting on major issues, the weight of the voting results based on the number of people and the number of coins should each account for 50%. If there is more than one voting platform that determines the number of people, the average of the voting results from these platforms can be taken as the voting result for the number of people.
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我真的很欣赏你的意见，你的想法简直太棒了🙏。Firo 需要像你这样的人。让我们展示社区的力量如何发展 Firo。我们已经知道，目前 Firo 项目背后没有鲸鱼。作为印度尼西亚社区的一员，我已准备好积极主动地传播信息和 Firo 的各种优势。让我们支持核心团队。我们可以一起努力，我相信我们的时代即将到来。

I really appreciate your opinion and your idea is simply brilliant :pray:. Firo needs someone like you. Let’s show how the power of the community can develop Firo. We already know that there are no whales behind the Firo project at this time. and I am ready as a member of the Indonesian community to be pro-active in disseminating information and all forms of Firo’s advantages. lets to support Core Team. Together we can, and I believe our time is coming.

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很想知道鲁本对你的这个问题的想法和解决方法？

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Of, course, I agree with this (and most of the other arguments made in this post).

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First of all thank you for taking the time to write this up. I wanted to take the time to respond to this as best I can and give this post the attention it deserves as you took the effort to express your thoughts. I also hope you can read through my explanations with an open mind and heart and also the relevant links that show why I hold a certain view rather than just me making decisions with my gut or as some in the Chinese community say, my ‘narcissism’ or desire to hang on to power.

While we may have disagreements, it shows that you care for the project and I also would like to say that despite what some within the Chinese community may think, I care deeply for the project even at great personal financial loss. I hope you understand that my actions come from a good place for the project and that I suffer equally if not more from any price drop.

Points 1-4 are all about low price. Of course low price is a problem that affects the core team as well. There’s definite alignment on agreeing that we all want to improve the price long term. While a lot of things happened that led to this place from attacks, to disagreements between whales/community/core, anti privacy coin regulation and an over focus on tech, I do not think it’s helpful to dwell too much on the past but instead look what we can do to move forward.

Let me deal with your issues in point 5, one by one:

While I am against coins as the sole determinant for voting power which also means that exchanges can vote even though they don’t own the coins (it has happened on Steemit) before, I do think that a minimum stake to vote does make some sense. I also still think that the history of coins where coin voting is the main way generally leads to entrenchment of a certain group of people that cannot be replaced. However, you are also right that people who do not have ‘skin in the game’ and only a small amount of Firo or even no Firo, should not be given the same voice as someone who has a huge vested interest in the project. I also hope people realize that while some people think that I do not approve of coin voting because of fear of being ‘voted out’, this is far from the truth and I do hold significant amounts of Firo that I also lend to the project at no charge to be used as market making inventory on the various exchanges.

If you don’t believe me, Vitalik Buterin has written a very detailed write-up on this whose ideas I agree on for the most part.

I do highly recommend reading it here.

Here’s a summary:

Currently, the majority of DeFi projects manage their protocol upgrades, reward issuance and other facets of governance elections, where votes are distributed among token holders according to the size of their holdings.

However, many projects have come under fire for allowing their voting process to be dominated by whales holding vast swathes of the governance tokens, allowing them to vote in support of their personal interests.

Buterin highlighted two issues relating to token-based governance, emphasizing the risk of incentives misaligning among community members and its vulnerability to “vote-buying” and “outright attacks” influencing the outcome of governance votes. He added:

“The most important thing that can be done today is moving away from the idea that coin voting is the only legitimate form of governance decentralization.”

Buterin noted the prevalence of “unbundling,” whereby “vote-buying” can be achieved and governance systems can be manipulated by borrowing on crypto collateral and using the tokenized assets to vote.

In the context of unbundling, “the borrower has governance power without economic interest, and the lender has economic interest without governance power,” he added.

Looking beyond token-based governance, Buterin advocated the exploration of “Proof-of-Humanity”-based governance systems where one vote is allocated per each of a protocol’s users.

Buterin also offered “Proof-of-Participation” as a possible solution, where voting is limited to the users of a protocol who have contributed work to the benefit of a project or its community, suggesting voting rights could be exclusively distributed to addresses that complete a specific task.

The Ethereum co-founder also suggested that quadratic voting — where the power of a single voter is proportional to the square root of the economic resources that they commit to a decision — could offer unique solutions to decentralized governance.

He also suggests a “skin in the game” approach that makes individual voters responsible for their decisions, stating:

“Coin voting fails because while voters are collectively accountable for their decisions (if everyone votes for a terrible decision, everyone’s coins drop to zero), each voter is not individually accountable.”

One way to mitigate this is to require these stakes to be in the Spark private pool which would make it harder for exchanges to use coins to vote since they don’t usually support Spark and also increases the anonymity set.

Implementing the voting is something that I do want to do but I want to do it right which is a combination of proof of personhood (while retaining privacy) combined with some Firo holding requirement. Doing the privacy preserving proof of personhood along with the whole system to vote, would probably take at the very least whole year of work with the current team. The problem is complex and you can see the issues here.

We can try to implement the Dash method through masternodes though it would take also half a year of work since a lot of things need to be upgraded and retrofitted and tested.

I actually do see the core team as a limited lifetime thing and once the key pillars of technical development are achieved, the core team can step back and move into maintenance mode or even disappear completely for full decentralization. Whether we have reached this stage yet is up for debate and up to the community to decide in the next round of polls. Personally I would like us to have curve trees/fcmps and maybe Spark Assets (if the community has demand for this) before we step away.

But a half measures situation does not work, either the community decides to fund the core team to deliver these things or does not fund it at all as some of the proposals for core team to only have a like a couple of thousand USD worth of Firo/month which honestly cannot fund more than a single person to handle everything.

Totally agree. This is what we are focusing on through confirmed integrations with three DEXes which are:

a) Komodo Wallet (AtomicDex) or FiroDex
Komodo Wallet DEX (which is FiroDEX) is the most developed one at the moment but lacks easy ways for regular users to provide liquidity. It also benefits from being listed on Coingecko so trade volumes there. We are currently trying to assess what is required to have our Campfire wallets interact directly with the Komodo Wallet DEX without requiring a separate app and this is our preferred choice at the moment.

b) Basicswap
Most privacy preserving but lacking liquidity and still hardest to get running.

c) Bison Wallet
Decred’s DEX but it requires a ‘DCR stake’ which would limit adoption. Has a user friendly bot to provide liquidity.

We are also trying to get funding to get us onto Serai when it is ready. Zano’s Confidential Layer also intends to integrate us.

Agreed though it would depend generally from region to region as getting USDT from fiat varies from country to country. For e.g., I don’t know how to get USDT in China and would be great if community can contribute some of these guides and we’ll gladly put them up!

This is something @erciccione has been advocating and we are definitely onboard with this. The current website does have issues supporting multi-language out of the box and again this is something we need community assistance with. But this should be a priority as well. We have started adding subtitles to our Youtube videos but if you or one of the Chinese community wants to repost videos on Chinese social media, that would be great!

We did do this before but it was hard to keep maintained. This is actually why we have our website on Github so people can actually post suggestions and Pull Requests to edit the website so we can just approve them.

Agreed. Some of the larger ones have high integration fees which we can’t afford but we have been trying to promote plugins.

This requires a change in tokenomics to support this and also requires a centralized issuance mechanism since this isn’t contributing to ‘proof of work’. Mobile mining is mostly through not actual mining proof of work but just a centralized faucet. This actually opens risk to the core team and also requires allocation of funds as it can’t be done in a decentralized manner without significant effort. This is how Pi network and other of these coins work where it isn’t actually ‘mined’ but just ‘airdropped’.

Yes! This is definitely a huge focus. This is why we have been working and focusing on Campfire wallet and Stack wallet. This doesn’t require a full sync and works quite easily though I don’t know how reliability of these servers are in China though you can always setup your own. I’m not sure if you tried it out but would really appreciate your feedback!

We are actually in alignment on most issues though we are seriously lacking manpower and funding to achieve all of this alone. But you are right that there needs to be a mechanism for people to feel invested in the success of the project and giving them voting power is one way to do it. Perhaps an intermediate solution is to develop a forum Discourse plugin that allows people to post proofs of Firo holding that would grant them special forum rights. This would allow people to choose whether they are okay in disclosing their amounts to vote and without requiring any KYC. This combined with forum and user posting can also avoid Sybil or bot attacks. I think this is something we should explore in earnest.

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make it happen please

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