Firo change suggestions

Hello, Firo Fam.

What do you think about:

  1. making supernodes with about 20k firos collateral and higher ROI (increase buy pressure)

  2. decreasing ROI for 1k nodes (increase buy pressure due to peeps buy more to run supernode)

  3. migrating to POS, decrease sell pressure from miners.

Former miners rewards reallocate to supernodes.

For those smart guys who’s goin to ask what is this all about - it’s about the money that would help this project to relaunch its new cycle, to redistribute coins, attract new holders and increase market activity, so on

Other way, if you thinking different with me, then suggest at once your opinion how to move our positions from this deep hole where it is…

  1. make some ama sessions or private sessions and invite some market makers companies representatives, then choose the best fit one service with market making that would serving the project goals

  2. splitting coin in two chains (discussible) (???)

One chain with strong masternode/staking consensus EVM compatible without anonymity.

The second one - anonymous chain, maybe even leaved at POW, dunno

Then connect chain with some bridges.

Purpose? To clean the main chain from sanctions and bans due to anonymity.

The second chain - dex only, the chain that would get all world’s hate about anonymity.

Supernodes 20k Firos
  • yes
  • no
0 voters
  • yes
  • no
0 voters
Split in 2 chain somehow/Reduce “anonymity” risks for main chain
  • yes
  • no
0 voters

As the tokenomics changed somewhat recently, I doubt there will be interest in making changes again.
Supernodes goes against the decentralisation idea.
Sell pressure from miners … currently every month the core team is selling more FIRO on the market to keep the lights on than the total monthly miner rewards.


Thanks for your reply.
As I already mentioned in my proposal, everybody who doesn’t agree should share his own ideas at once.
So, I would appreciate your opinion what should be done instead of my ideas in order to settle some more market life in this project.
We are not about fundamentals like “cex must die, privacy forever”, we are about healthy market moves.
Reuben always says, that Firo is not pump and dump coin. Actually he’s right, because it’s only dump coin.
So please suggest something to change this situation.

As mentioned by @Cryptoman, Increasing the collateral to 20k FIRO and/or switching to POS system undermine decentralization. It would also decease the amount of nodes in the network and be susceptible to attack. That would be the last thing we want. The more you make it where whales have more power to own most of the nodes/total supply, you will have these handful of individuals taking control of the network and also the market.

IMO, 1000 Firo is enough (eventho its still a substantial amount of money) for anyone to obtain for a masternode, not everyone can afford 20k FIRO even in the current price point. Yes, I understand the price and money do matter but if we abandon our goals just to increase price and throw away what we have been building, then what do we stand for? If we clean the main chain off about anonymity, What does that leave us with? Just another coin driven by profit? Our aim is to construct a robust, foundational network for the future.

I do understand supporting privacy is not an easy and what we are up against, that’s why we can compromise with CEXs. We can discuss and find a middle ground. We are open to discussions. We have survived through thick and thin, through hackers/targeted attacks, from a malicious co-founder and seed investor, and still we continue to build great tech that solve quite a lot of problems.

AMA sessions are great way to address issues and explain to those who do not understand what we are building towards, this I agree to. We can make a date for an AMA session, but we can’t comment about price as the team do not manipulate the market. I believe we are in touch with market makers at the moment.

To get more people on the project, we need to educate the importance of privacy before its too late. Yes, some does not care about privacy. I understand that, but when the time comes, when your money and/or life is threatened, it will be too late. I am not against crypto influences. I’m all for it but if we were to pay them to promote us, they need to understand the importance of privacy and educate their followers. Which will bring in more Firo adapters thus driving demand. There is nothing wrong with the technology in Firo. I believe it is the best out there and we shouldn’t throw that away just for increasing price.

If we want to increase the price, more people should be adopting Firo into their businesses. Maybe an incentive program to do so? It would reward both the merchant and the consumer. We can explore into this sector.


My proposal was to make 2 types of nodes, so we don’t cancel 1k node, we just add additional 20k node option with ROI higher. So we don’t decrease amount of nodes, because:

  • yes, 1k nodes will receive less firos
  • but buy pressure will increase Firo USD value, so 1k node will still profitable

All successful project are driven by profit and by the community inspired with profit. Fundamentals second place.
First you manage to earn money (pump), then you spend this money on your project - popular influencers in different languages, spreading information between people from censorship countries, collaborate with opposition politicians and parties, partnership with mixers like Tornado Cash, making easy-to-install built-in script for popular CMS to receive Firo donations and so on so on. Nothing of this was done. Nobody knows about Firo.
Reuben’s YouTube videos have 200-300 views. The cat can probably be more popular if one makes him jump in funny way.
So I mean focus this privacy narrative to the people who need it NOW, not at future, when feds and govs will probably pitch a tent in your brain and pockets trying to figure out how and where you spend your money. Without money Firo takes risks not to survive when privacy will be adopted worldwide. And still when that adoption moment will happen - other coins like Monero will take your place even if you are better.
So first comes money, second come development and spreading.

First Firo peak was at 160 usd, second at 25.
So if we imagine this arithmetic progression is real, our third peak would be at 4 usd? Very nice, but no chances to develop and compete with Monero at this levels. Also can mention obvious liquidity issues.
Hype is not bad, hype is the way crypto project can survive and not to die.
That is how crypto works in general.

I suppose you can do nothing with cex in case they just say “goodbye”.
Then price will go to near zero and project die more.
It sounds like “I will freeze my ears to spite my mother” or to cut off one’s nose to spite one’s face…

Sure, comment the price in public it pretty strange.
So I think it would be just enough if you write at TG/Twitter - hey Firo Fam! We are with DWF Labs now.
Nothing more)

If I ask my Granny how to get more peeps in project, so that is how she would answer I think)
Before you will educate everybody about privacy your hair become white like old man))

Nice idea, do you understand that all the crypto payments goes via fiat gateways so that the final merchant can receive its income not in Firo but in bank account?))
And all this would be gone with the wind as soon as Firo is banned from exchanges and crypto-fiat processors.


It’s nice to see these types of discussions in the community. The reasons for my refusal of the suggestion have already been discussed. But I have certain doubts, such as: Can 5K nodes be used? without their rewards differing “considerably” from the rewards of the 1K nodes. Could a significant difference in rewards discourage 1K node administrators and cause a migration to 5K nodes, but at the same time an abandonment or decrease in the utilization of 1k nodes?

On the other hand, is not making a fork to work with privacy on the one hand and without privacy on the other the same as creating another cryptocurrency and losing the essence of the project? Does Firo not allow you to work anonymously (privately) and publicly as activated or deactivated by the user? Can’t this quality of public wallets be implemented for the CEX and keep the wallets private (or both) for the Dex? Likewise, when working with a CEX, privacy is lost. I apologize for not fully understanding the technical aspects but the idea is to learn and try to contribute to improve.

Also, I have been thinking about the idea of presenting a couple of proposals to the community. Both have to do with marketing, because it is one of the weaknesses that I have noticed in the project, how far it has gone, how much diffusion it has had, how much we are making known firo, because I have also noticed it in the scope of the Reuben’s videos, as HIM666 has commented. But one of the proposals would also have to do with the utility of firo, market creation and liquidity.
I apologize again, but this time, for the poor translation achieved by Google Translate.


It is true that firo should make some huge changes, it has been a state of continuous demise, this bear market has led to firo has been on the verge of delisting in cex exchange, the next bear market firo may disappear, the idea of this brother is very bold, but it is indeed a good direction, the current direction has lasted for a long time. I really don’t see any hope.

I quite agree with his idea to increase the size of nodes and make bolder advertising

Hey! I welcome these discussions and thank you for the time you took to write this. Let me address them the best I can :slight_smile:

Masternodes and their Role

So first of all I don’t think just rejigging the masternode rewards will do much. During the early years, masternodes was a new concept with the concept of passive income being attractive which is why it took off like a rocket. It was a powerful narrative then. Unfortunately after the 2018 cycle, masternodes are no longer sexy and seen as a relic of the past like most crypto fads such as yield farms etc.

Does this make the system automatically bad? Not really. It has its limitations but the hybrid system does a good job of balancing security, fair distribution and having the community earn rewards. While there are more advanced consensus mechanisms out there, they involve a good degree amount of work for only marginal benefit so personally I don’t see any urgency in moving away from the current hybrid system.

Creating additional nodes and further punishing smaller holders to me is idealogically wrong and doesn’t create any additional utility or benefit. Remember, the halving and even slashing the miners and increasing masternode share did nothing to price.

Sell pressure

Miner sell rewards hardly affect the market. While they as a group aren’t vocal participants in the community, there’s a beauty of being able to get your coins without any permission or prior holdings required especially as a privacy focused project. The sell pressure that they exert is miniscule even with the reduced volumes. People forget that % of block reward is not the same as % of supply especially since we’ve gone through a halving.

One interesting way to replace miners is maybe through merge-mining whereby we align ourselves with a PoW coin with an active and privacy oriented community (such as maybe Monero) though @sproxet will scream at me :slight_smile: It is important that our miners care about what we’re building!

I also saw a comment that core team is imposing sell pressure. While this is of course technically true, 16000 FIRO from core team and let’s say 14K Firo from community fund is like 30k FIRO a month which is like 44k USD sell pressure a month (which covers all operations). Something that can easily be absorbed in half a day by the market. Note that the way the core team sells is always through small maker orders of 200-400 FIRO meaning there is no dump. It means that core team puts the order to sell, and someone buys it rather than us taking someone else’s buy order. The biggest sell pressure are from old holders especially during an extended bear market when people are hurting.

A Primer on Market-making

As for market making, I’ve explained this before there are basically two primary models that market makers work:
a) retainer model
b) option model

Retainer model is straight forward, you pay them a couple of thousand USD/month and they deploy your capital and fill the books up and encourage trading. Generally this is market neutral.

Option model is different, you loan them your inventory for free and they trade with it freely. They don’t charge you a fee. In return you grant them a call option to buy at a certain price.

They also have the ability to choose whether to pay you back in native FIRO or stablecoin whichever is favorable to them. If the FIRO price is lower than they started, they return to you the FIRO which is now worth less. If the FIRO price is higher than they started, they repay the loan to you in stablecoin and pocket the change in FIRO. This effectively works as a free option both ways.

Investment also often comes with a discount inbuilt. Let me show you a sample proposal including from some of the firms that community has been “recommending us to work with”.

I’ll let you come to the conclusion whether market makers like these are aligned. Currently these are being proposed to many projects and those in distress have taken up these deals.

Another big risk of the option model is that they effectively have custody and control over your funds and what happens if they don’t deliver? Also don’t forget what happened to Alameda and 3AC.

The retainer model still allows the project to retain control of the funds (at least within the exchange accounts).

In the tradfi space, market makers generally work on retainer + performance bonus model and the metrics they are judged on are:
a) Depth of books
b) Spread
c) Volume
Note that none of these factor in price.

For projects where they have all the funds allocated up front to team/market makers/VCs and where there is no established market already, it’s easy for these market makers and VCs to prop up the price since there is little “public” to sell. In this case centralization of tokens is a huge boon here which is something this project does not have. Noob influencers or casual observers just look at the rich list and say ooh it’s heavily centralized without realizing that it’s because most of them are sitting on exchanges. This indicates a problem in aligning the community with the ideals of the project vs speculation.

Reasons of Price Decline

As is most things, a lot of it is multi factorial. However I don’t think the issue of masternodes or even dev tax are the main issues here.

Without going into the details (as otherwise this post would be too long) I’ll give a short summary:
a) 51% attack and disgruntled seed investor made us miss one bull cycle
b) Various vulnerabilities especially around Zerocoin shook confidence
c) Privacy as a narrative hasn’t really taken off yet and instead has faced regulatory pressure
d) Early on, we lost focus of our core mission which is privacy and instead divided attention into ASIC resistance and masternodes which made us slower than we would have liked
e) Rebrand and a strategic dump by seed investor during that time lost us the boost and brand recognition.
f) Over focus on tech without improving user experience or adoption.

I of course accept responsibility of my role in many of these and I’ve said it many times that I’m willing to step down should a suitable replacement be found. I mean this genuinely even though some may think I’m just saying this. It is after all my end goal to have the project run on its own legs. Firo is my love and although I have received lucrative opportunities to join new projects, I find great pride in the product, team and community we built despite the price and have an illogical attachment to it. A lot of my personal resources (not Firo’s) go into Firo, from the cost of the videos I do (regardless of reach), some staff, market making inventory and other things and it’s because I believe in the importance of our mission.

In this new economy that is surrounded by “attention” especially in crypto, narratives always shift. Remember when some of you said we should go into metaverse or gaming?

Moving Forward

Some have expressed that Firo should give up privacy and change narrative. While that is possible, I wouldn’t be the right person to lead it then. I still sincerely believe in the importance of it and that one day this narrative will come to the fore. With increasing discussions on CBDC, Tornado Cash and increasing distrust in governments and corporations, I do think that privacy’s time will come and it is our time to position ourselves for that time when it happens.

For those who do want to pivot away from privacy makes me ask, why were you here in the first place when it was very clear what our mission was despite the obvious risks? Despite other influencers or project leads, I have never asked people to invest or buy Firo.

Right now I’m focused on delivering the promised Spark upgrade that would give a very strong foundation of privacy. If the community permits, I would then focus on the development of Spark Assets and a privacy token ecosystem to expand the use cases of Firo to be more than just a coin but a privacy ecosystem. While there are others that do this, they often take short cuts like proprietary hardware (TEE) or use custodial options to offer bridging.

Another route is to focus more on adoption and UX efforts which is something I am hoping to do after Spark launch. This means much more reliance on light wallets and user interface and getting it smooth and a pleasure to use. This is something I meant to do a lot earlier but had to prioritize Spark over this.

But that being said, despite the doom and gloom, there’s a lot to be proud about. We have lasted longer than many projects that have raised many millions of dollars. We maintain strong exchange listings and actually quite healthy liquidity. We have many valuable integrations and partnerships. We have built some of the most important privacy protocols even ones that have inspired other projects and continue to be at the forefront of this. We’ve actually gained a lot of new supporters who are privacy aligned from the Monero, Beam and Epic Cash communities. I would like to continue this mission if the community permits but it requires both the community and core team to be aligned with each other. I apologize if I’ve not been as vocal or present as before but I can assure you Firo is at the forefront of my priorities everyday.

We have many valuable community members and even the criticisms are welcome as long as they’re constructive. It means you care enough to give a shit to write something here which is why I think it’s important I write this. We are a project for the people and that means the people need to work on this. Not some pipe dream of selling out to a VC or getting into a deal with the devil with some market maker whose interests are just to profit off our inventory and options.


Also in response to whether having ‘two chains’ one which is private and the other is transparent.

Well…first of all right now Firo still has the transparent addresses and from our talks with Binance, so far they can still work with the transparent portion of it.

Also you may have forgotten but there is BEP20 FIRO which supports Defi and all of that jazz! Whether BSC is the right place for it is a separate question. There is of course the ability to build a simple MPC bridge to bridge assets into other chains but there needs to be someone who is willing to provide the initial liquidity to make it worthwhile and to also find other parties to the MPC that are trustworthy.

You may have actually recall that we used to have something called stFIRO before Fireblocks and Stakehound debacle and even had an incentive scheme with sushiswap but saw little traction from the Firo community.

Other bridges are much more complicated and is almost an endeavor as big as doing Spark itself and not without risks (as we have seen many hacks).

1 Like

Hello Reuben! Thanks for your time and detailed review!
So…and what about pushing Firo between the people who is interested in privacy at that moment?
For example due to latest geopolitical moves Facebook and Instagram got blocked in some countries.
This has led to incredible growth of VPN sector in this areas. Everyone has VPN, despite of the fact he’s doing baby sitting for living for example and so on. I mean people very far from IT-sphere. And everyone become a vpn provider there.

I hope you are not going to enable privacy by default and make transparent chain depricated.

I mean this is of course natural, but how to execute it is a question! This is something that Monero can achieve and even then it’s quite limited as people who are into privacy sometime distrust cryptocurrencies.

If you know a VPN provider that is willing to accept us or if someone is already using a VPN, they can always reach out to add us. Rather than going for the big name ones, it may make more sense to target smaller ones.

One of the things that we need to convince people is the liquidity of Firo and for businesses with small ticket sizes be it travel, VPNs or coffee are all great. Some may say “it’s sell pressure” i would argue that it’s utility and also keeps these integrations in active use and development are just as important.

How to reach these people and convert them is a separate question. This is why I also appeared on DecentralizeTV which is quite controversial as many of these people are also privacy loving people.

Welcome concrete ways to reach out to these diverse community but remember it often comes better from an existing community member or customer of the service rather than a core team member.

Btw I did use to run a VPN service :slight_smile:


Reuben, your explanation is very clear, I have liked that aspect since I came to this community, although I never write, I am very struck by the work philosophy and how the team carries out the project. I have read a lot of community posts (but they are quite a lot). I hope you continue with the project, being forceful as you have been until now, every time I read (or watch a video) you or someone on the team I learn new things, that makes this project different. in addition to transparency within a privacy project. Nobody questions your excellent work (not even me, who is newer here), promotion is a task for the entire community. I will soon leave you a proposal for a public of more than 400 million inhabitants that has not yet been addressed. successes!


Thanks for this explanation, it’s beautiful.
The reason I came to firo was the privacy. I was invested in Dash but they were leaving the privacy focus wich make me search for alternatives.
I know firo is under development and have a transparency layer but is moving in the right direction to be a totally privacy coin, including providing privacy service for other coins.
I already have many coins for other purposes like:
- Speed of transactions,
- Dividends, Yields
- Smart Contracts
- Store of Value
- Zero to low cost transactions
- payment transactions
It’s hard for FIRO to compete with then in their expertise areas, but in terms of privacy, just a few coins are as good as FIRO, if we leave privacy, then we lose our advantage


I think we need to do the opposite of what you have proposed. Everything you have proposed, has not seen in other projects pump and I think we need to take a good look at other projects that have pumped.

Supernodes Horizen (ZEN) has. Their normal nodes are 42 Zen and Supernodes are 500 Zen. Horizen has pumped last bulllrun so lower collateral for nodes is something that will pump. I have not seen higher collateral pump. Copy what works and not invent something that is new and has not pumped. We want pump so we do not increase masternode collateral but decrease masternode collateral and create a light node and supernode. Lightnode will be 25 firo and supernode will be 250 firo. This will decrease sell pressure because you can use rewards to create lightnode and everyone will be able to run a light node for just 25 firo and supernode for 250 firo. This will decrease sell pressure and also increase buy pressure and pump.

Also I think it is better to look at sell pressure than buy pressure. Because of that, I think it is better if we have Masternode Lock. If you want to unlock your Masternode, it will take 1 year and 10 months to unlock fully. So after 1 year, you get 10% of your masternode every month. This will decrease sell pressure and increase pump.

Also new coins from blockrewards will have a 1 year lock (decrease sell pressure so we can pump). But those coins can be used to create a Lightnode (less sell pressure and more buy pressure, so pump). Furthermore I think we need to decrease the block rewards so there will be less sell pressure (harder pump). So we need to have low ROI decrease sell pressure. High ROI is high sell pressure and lower prices(this is bad for pump!).

Also burn mechanic need to be introduced. Fees need to be burned so the supply will decrease. This will create less sell pressure and will make firo scarcer and will make price go higher.

So to summarise:

  1. Light node 25 firo (increase buy pressure due to peeps buy more to run node)
  2. Super node 250 firo (increase more buy pressure due to peeps buying more firo to run supernode)
  3. Masternode Lock 1 year and 10 months. (Decrease sell pressure, higher price)
  4. Blockrewards lock 1 year (decrease sell pressure, harder pump)
  5. Decrease blockrewards (even lower sell pressure, even harder pump)
  6. Burn fees (make firo scarcer and will increase and amplify pump)

This will attract new holders and increase market activity and so on.

Never give up privacy. I’m always with you.

1 Like

Welcome to the community!

For ZEN, one of the biggest reasons they pumped was also because of Grayscale Trust acceptance and Barry with VC investment. Again this pump was also a long time ago and again in a time where passive masternodes were still an exciting prospect. Now they’re giving up privacy and there is still limited adoption of its sidechains.

The locking aspect is something that has been considered before and while I’m not against it, to me it’s a bit of a distraction and a forced lock-in. It will also make masternodes less attractive. Also similar efforts in DeFi have generally been seen as desperate moves.

Also doing this is not trivial if you’re introducing varying different masternodes and would mean we further deviate from Dash and have to independently maintain it which is quite a huge animal to tackle alone. There’s already technical debt with the Bitcoin core.

My idea really is to create new ways to earn yield through the creation of Spark asset AMM pools where users are given rewards for providing liquidity to the protocol. They bear the risk, they bear the rewards. And for this there might be a minimum lock-in period before they are entitled to rewards so while we won’t force them to stay in, they won’t earn the rewards from it. This gives new ways for people to use their FIRO and begin creating its own economic system since higher liquidity attracts more activity, arbitrage opportunities and transaction movements. To me the Ethereum ecosystem model makes sense except we’ll keep things simple and restrict it to AMMs/bridges rather than opening the door to too many creative things that might bite us in the ass. This together with the support of privacy NFTs.

We have to realize that another reason why Firo isn’t doing so great is that besides spending it and making masternodes, there isn’t much to do as the payments space often rewards first mover advantage. This is why I’m a believer in differentiating with privacy token ecosystems.

While the above is a lot of work, to me it adds utility to Firo and is a market differentiator. This is a market that Monero would never touch. Zcash might with ZSAs and Zano is also working on it (but with a focus on the older RingCT tech and also no support for NFTs).

Remember, crypto as an industry moves incredibly fast and repeating what people did the last cycle usually doesn’t work too well especially if it hasn’t really kept up. Not that I disagree that doing the same thing all the time is the right thing also but I do think that privacy is a core value that we have to upkeep so any features should be surrounded in improving the utility around Firo and its core values.

In a nutshell, I think we should be focusing on creating economic activity through some form of privacy DeFi ecosystem which also increases its resilience in the event of Firo delistings since it will create its own economy, liquidity pools and bridges. There are some cool ways to achieve trustless bridging using ZKPs and it’s something I’m keen to dive more into (but not going to lie, it’s a lot of work!).


VC maybe pump ZEN. But maybe not only VC but also smaller people who can buy node for cheap and feel part of community. Now to be really part of the community you need 1000 firo. Monero does not have masternode. So even with very little monero, you feel part of community. And if price is higher then almost no one can run masternode and be really part of community. That is sad.

I am also against lock but if node and collateral is higher than 1000 Firo, then there needs to be lock mechanism. Lock for rewards and lock for masternode. So no farming and dumping. If people want high ROI go to cake and get 100% farm APR and see where price is now!

I agree also that high ROI coins are desperation and all high ROI coins are now down and will never go up. Because only selling point was high ROI so you can dump. Firo has selling point PRIVACY! Almost no coins in crypto are privacy! Why suggest for Firo leaving privacy? Sounds like government who wants to destroy privacy!

ZKP bridge is a good idea! But a lot of hacks in bridges. So that is scary.