Does FIRO available on any futures or other types of derivative market? Do you think the attacker might place a huge long and short position on FIRO during that period and get benefitted from it?
So the swift move by the team was crucial in managing this attack… I believe more trust by the public should be earned by Firo once public have a clear understanding of what was and is happening
There is a high chance that privacy coins will be delisted from exchanges anyways, so even if we pay exchanges now and a new law comes from the gov officials and exchanges are forced to delist, we would have paid for nothing and made firo’s life even more difficult than it already is…
And how will it looks like? Someone did something and developer don’t like it. So lets roll it back. What will be the difference between attacker and developer?
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Is there any Firo owner that did like it?
I guess I’ll take on the role of playing the bad guy since none of the other votes for Option C have said anthing:
Decentralization comes at a cost. The attacker played by the rules and won. Fair and square. It sux, but so does life if you live in padded rooms your entire life. Life is only enjoying if there are risks involved.
Good luck with your centralized project. May it go down in a Firo’y ball of flames 
Sorry, just had to use that jab lol.
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And there you have it, muffling opinions of those that you dont agree with. I can expect nothing less than that coming from a centralized community I suppose 
Most of the people vote for refunding the coins to the Binance. But what to do with another users who made transactions or miners who worked during the attack? That will be not fair to another participants.
Why there is no option to refund everybody?
W.Shakespeare said: “All the world’s a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages,”
Unfortunately, attacker won that play and it should not be the way to go back.
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I voted for option 1, return the coins to the exchange. Although this breaches the so called ‘code is law’ argument and proves that the developers could, theoretically, do this whenever they want, it is the just course of action. Having frozen the funds the devs have effectively broken this law already, so what is there to gain at this point by only going half way to right the wrong? Anyone who studies the facts of the case cannot but conclude that it was a malicious act, of unknown motive, to roll back 300 blocks. I’m convinced that if this case were brought before king Solomon, after a bit of background reading on blockchain, he would have the coins returned to their rightful owners - basic ethical values are immutable, a blockchain isn’t
The global network that Firo miners and MN operators (once chain-locks are in place) provide allows for the secure and private transfer of digital assets - this still has tremendous value to offer the world. This event should be seen as the teething pains of a relatively young block-chain.
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O-ho-ho. Someone was not a good child during the last year?
Why are you going refund the coins? Because Binance lost it somehow? As I understand Binance made all the withdrawals by themself. That will be like if I send to somebody my coins and them will ask the developers to return it to me because I made mistake in the address.
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Agree that the funds should be returned and lesson learned.
What about just adding the stolen funds to the maximum supply and then paying the exchanges back?
No way to refund the coins. But I agree with previous comment that Attacker taught a lesson. And it is necessary to pay for that lesson. There is no free education all over the world.
It is really to say who has more quilt Binance or developers, but not attacker. First voluntarily gave his coins and now crying that lost something. Second made such possibility and now saying that every POW coin can be attacked. That is not true.
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Don’t lock the attackers funds. Developers cannot change the rules they wrote.
Yes I voted to return the funds and if I may echo a sentiment in the chat is that crypto is a social contract.
If we subtract the reorg situation then the funds would be with binance and the users who I must emphasize are the victims in this situation. I would make things right as that is the type of community I want to be in and associate with.
This isnt a black or white centralization and decentralization scenario. It is erroneous to compare this to fiat or PayPal. When PayPal freezes an account due to “suspicious activity” they don’t take in community feedback on what to do. They do what they want. When the US/EU/GBP inflates the money supply with stimulus, there isn’t a community vote for that either.
Why did bitcoin and Crypto get huge? People will say network effect but really its the COMMUNITY. People coming together to lend their talents to create something to solve a problem. It’s the people behind the code.
The fact that we are all sharing what should be done here in a forum, as this is a critical juncture, puts us on the spectrum of a Decentralized Autonomous Organization (DAO). That is something I would like to be a part of.
I like to keep in mind that this is only the iteration of Firo as it stands today. As time goes on according to the road map the team wants to make themselves more decentralized and less reliant on the dev fund. Rome wasn’t built in a day as the cliche saying goes.
Recently shapeshift is adjusting their business model to be a DEX and drop their kyc. Soon I believe based on current events there will be a huge DEX (or multiple) that will do huge volume comparatively to Uniswap.
If another event occurs in the future (which this one in particular shouldn’t due to chainlocks), then the honest team will do what we value them for which is put it up for community to weigh in on the forums.
Believe it or not getting wealthy and rising to plus maintaining prominence is a team sport. People complain about price now but not remembering the full context of a few major aspect of price increase for the project is adoption and partnerships. The chance meetings that changes the status quo. People have to like us to want to work with us such as the latest partnership with Locktrip. CGP did a great video called the Rules for Rulers in which no one rules alone.
I’m a believer in options. If you want a code is law without social contracts and empathy then there is ETC to vote with your money and accumulate those bags. I suspect since they are in the top 20 they could withstand blowback. Another project BTG which is smaller took the code is law approach and their result was delisting from Bittrex according to a coin telegram article. I believe that voting isn’t just a ballot situation. It’s the choices we make everyday. Volunteering is a vote for the community we want to live in and spending our money is a vote to what we want to see more of. I vote for the mission, philosophy and tech of Firo. This is way too important.
Binance believe it or not as of today is one of the king makers with futures market that would benefit Firo. They listed us during a time when it was normal to command about $250k for a listing fee. This was the power of the community and they chose to do that at their discretion.
I have lived in North America and when someone steals your wallet or purse you can count on basically eating that loss. I have lived in East Asia and was pleasantly surprised that when one loses their wallet/purse, someone will chase you down to return it to you. If you’re not present it gets mailed to you or turned into for authorities to return to the victim later. The latter is the type of society and social contract I would like to keep living in.
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Return funds to Binance.
While chainlocks will make things safer, it’s worth seriously considering a move from POW to POS.
POS will be more secure, better for the environment and not biased towards regions with cheap electricity.
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Don’t lock attacker and implement chainlocks as soon as it possible. Who stopped you to do it before starting the genesis block?
I have been a long time investor in Zcoin, and I will remain a long time investor in Firo.
Through the years I have come to respect both the team and the community.
You will not recognize me as this is the first time I participate through the forum and I have made a “burner” account just to participate to this poll.
If I must vote one of the three option given I vote one.
However, as I am given a chance to participate in the debate I will also take that chance and tell you what I think would be the most fair solution. Here it comes:
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Binance should commit 100% in investigating in whose hands the BTC/ETH/USDT that were withdrawn ended up. Also, Binance should do all that is in their power to have the perpetrators of the attack arrested, prosecuted, and the funds returned.
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In turn, the Firo community should give Binance the guarantee that, in case the investigation is unsuccessful, or the prosecution does not result in the recovery of the whole “stolen” amount, the remaining financial damage will be covered with the frozen Firo.
Why this stance?
While it is true that Binance has only been kind to us, at many point in times, and in many different ways, Binanca is - and remains - a business entity. That - for whatever reason - it has happened that an attacker (or a group of attacker) could pull such a stunt on the exchange, it means that they did not have their house in order. If we as a community pay Binance back before a culprit for the attack is either found or prosecuted we are not setting a good example, and we are also interfering with the chance of setting a positive example for the whole crypto ecosystem, where community and exchanges should create/form a synergy in this kind of situations.
@reuben if I remember correctly when I did my DYOR about Zcoin, you have a solid law background and you were even partner in a law firm at some point.
Zcoin has always set an example of how traditional/institutional governance and decentralized governance can get the best out of each other when collaborating (to the point that Zcoin was even mentioned as positive example in a not very optimistic article about blockchain technologies on the BBC website: Blockchain: The revolution that hasn't quite happened - BBC News).
Can we as a community set a new example in bridging the old and the new system by including in the voting also an option which goes more or less as follows:
- Come in front of a notary (maybe in Malta where Binance is incorporated, if I am not wrong);
- Sign an agreement in which is the Firo Team and Binance agree with one another that if a) the investigation leads to nothing or b) the prosecution does not lead to the returning of the whole sum, the missing amount will be paid back from the attackers’ frozen assets.
- To avoid problems due to price volatility in between now and the time either the investigation and/or the prosecution of the attackers have done their course, the frozen attackers’ funds should be converted to a stable coin (or to fiat) at the same time the agreement is signed (I assume Binance should not have too many problems with BUSD for instance, right?). The stable coins collateral could be kept in a 2 out of 3 multisig wallet where Firo team, notary, and Binance have each at least 1 key; fiat could be kept in a bank account of the notary and released accordingly upon the resolution of the investigation and/or prosecution.
If Binance is succesful in recovering all or part of the stolen BTC/ETH/BUSD, the remaining collateral can be reconverted to Firo at the community convenience for instance for boosting the market price in bearish times, of for creating liquidity on the markets, of for subsidizing the community proposal, or for the costs the dev team makes… Or for who knows what.
We live all in different countries here, but each and one of the countries we live in has a legal apparatus capable of dealing with this kind of situations. We do not have to damage Binance more than they have, but we should also not let the fear of being de-listed be the sole driver of our first reaction as a community. There are steps we can take together with Binance in sharing responsibilities for what has happened and efforts to help one another out of this situation in a way we can give an excellent example on how to bridge both traditional and decentralized governance once more.
Whomever did this to us trying to destroy Firo actually gave us a chance to shine in how we can try to work together with a giant like Binance. Let us not put guns at each others heads, but let us see what can be done.
Compromises are also possible. Like give them a downpayment from the frozen funds equal to what they usually would charge a listing, even double that, and then go to the notary and proceed as described above.
Or more simply reply to this and [put your example here].
My five cents.
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This is a wonderful offer, which will help us get out of trouble and win us credit.
Devs should follow the votes. To me, that makes it different from typical centralized systems.
I definitely intend to get some assurances that Binance will pursue this further. However I’m also mindful of the timeliness of this. Binance had their balances drained severely and now possibly cannot honor all user withdrawals of Firo.
This also affects users of Binance who now may not be able to get their Firo out from the exchange.
Investigations can take months or years, I’m not sure if it’s realistic to withhold settlement pending an investigation completion.
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