I´m just now listening to the Interview with DJMines.
I think we should find a way to actually try and make people devide the hashrate.
Something like a system were it devides the reward in a way, that a smaller pool would get a larger payment then a smaller one would.
On the other hand. I personally am on 2miners Solo mining. And I´ve looked at all the other Solo pools. My ping to 2miners is at 17-21ms and all the others are 50ms and up. That´s a desaster for Solomining, so if they can´t provide the server infrastructure then we as a community need to step up.
That´s why I think the community fund is a great idea. It could for example help someone setup the infrastructure to make a sensible alternative. I mean I wouldn´t mind to have a ping of 25-30 and move off 2miners to better distribute the hashrate.
What we definetly need is much easier guides to the inner workings of Firo to make something like a masternode more accessible/ understandable for people.
I´ve said it before and I´ll just type it here again
70% Masternodes and Miners reward distributed depending on just for example which miner/pool found the block. Someone Solo being better for the network getting a bigger piece of the pie and someone in a huge pool getting less, if the pools hashrate excedes a certain point maybe dropping it drastically.
I´m just now listening to the Interview with DJMines.
FIRO is amazing and really should be up there at least close to Monero and ZCash.
There must be a good way to put the spotlight back on FIRO. I don’t think people realize it’s not just another cut-n-paste coin.
Firo is a currency with the possibility of making it private, but it remains a public currency by default and by choice of the majority: most coins are on public addresses.
Voting by signing messages on public addresses is entirely possible.
About the dev reward:
It’s currently 15% and the team says it lacks the means to cope with all the work. I understand.
On the other hand, it would be a mistake to want to increase the dev reward beyond the current 15%: the additional mmoney for the development team must come from the increase of the Firo price, not from the increase of the dev reward.
Reuben is not mistaken: he does not claim the increase of the dev reward.
My block reward distribution :
60%-70% : masternodes
0%-10% : community matching fund (depends on how this fund is controlled)
15% : miners
15% : development team
especially with the control point. By now, i don`t get how this fund could be controled to not be exploitable in some way. it must be rock-solid without a single entity or a small group (even dev team or miners) have access to the fund.
Same with variable miner rewards. the idea is great i think, but in practice somehow the info which adress belongs to pool xy must been told the protocol. here i see a point of failure. thats why i don`t think it is duable, even if the idea is good. it would decentralize mining - and FIRO and ZCoin before always stands for decentralication.
Btw, i love this thread, wasn`t thinking about deep crypto thoughts for quite some while with all these NFT and DEFI nonsense
If anyone is interested how Core Team is using its portion of the block reward can be viewed here.
Which is why I like the idea of ‘matching’ since it means community has to contribute first before it is matched from the fund.
I think it’s pretty hard to code something that would automatic adjust masternode and miner distributions based on miner/pool found.
We only know which pool finds the block based on publicly disclosed pool addresses or an identifier that they choose to publish with their block. They can easily change addresses or identifier.
I think it’s missing the point though. Hashrate distribution is only a small part of the problem since masternodes protect the chain. However, I’m requesting miners to distribute the hashrate to ‘signal’ that they care about Firo. Since my post, video and interview with DJMines, there still is no meaningful shift of hash rate. If in a few weeks we still don’t see any movement, we know what the majority of the miners are thinking.
Right now, there’s still trust in the core team to make the final call after taking in community feedback. We will never ignore the community voice as that would also be disastrous to our credibility. I hope our genuine intentions come through in having these open discussions.
Having gone through the nightmare that was Tim and seeing how exchanges can use coins that they hold to sway votes, I’m not in favor of using coin voting. Someone who doesn’t hold a lot of Firo but yet champions Firo hard using their efforts and helps you to get listed on exchanges or improves the project is actually worth more than someone who holds a lot of Firo but is otherwise passive. Note this is coming from someone like myself who probably is one of the largest holders of the coin.
This is why for the community fund it is ‘fund matching’. Meaning people put their money where their mouth is and have to donate something to the proposal to have it matched via quadratic voting. These donations would be linked to forum accounts with minimum age/posting requirements. There would need to be some work to have this voting in place but it’s definitely doable. Donations are the votes. And the more votes from individual accounts, the more that donation is given precedence.
Another possibility is
15% Dev reward
5-10% Community Matching/Community Fund
We see how miners react, if there’s a change in the situation and we start experimenting a little with the Community Fund to see if it works.
40% Miner + TX Fees
would still mean the chain is PoW, and would still make Firo legit
as long as the miners are what is producing the block
40% Zealots + 5% Vanity + 15% Devs
that is somewhat acceptable, Firo is PoW coin, that is the only way you can have privacy
50% for masternodes
Totally agree！！ ,miners sold ASAP when they get cheap FIRO.
Masternodes and chainlock keep FIRO safely!
I am a miner and i would like to give my perspective.
Firstly if think the developer really has all the right reasons for making Firo coin, so this is in no way to hammer the devs or anything, this is just my perspective.
Im a normal guy living in a rural area, working a full time job to pay my bread and butter so to speak. Last year i invested 250.000 USD in mining hardware to mine crypto, and i do not mine Firo. Why not?
Its not the most profitable coin to mine, and progpow uses a lot of power and generates a lot of heat. So a better stragety for me is to mine ETH, even though i do not like a single thing about the project, its what makes the most money.
Why do i do this?
I run around 35.000 watts of power to my GPU’s, thats not free I need to pay the power cost, progpow uses around 20-25% more power, so its more expensive, at the same time it generates more heat for me to manage with exhaust or drilling huge holes in the wall.
I pay insurance for my GPU’s, I pay a security firm for alarms and video survailance. I bought stuff to reinforce my doors. I bought exhaust fans for 1500 Usd, i bought and made cables for the power, i paid and electrician to upgrade my power. And i am currently saving up 4000 USD more to install some 40” exhaust fans in the walls, because come summer 35.000 watts in going to be rough to cool. Oh yea, and i pay an accountant 1000-2000 USD to do my taxes on the LLC i made for mining
I am a one man operation, I do everything i am allowed to myself, I have borrowed 100.000 USD to expand the farm, so i need to pay this off.
I literally do not have the time of day, to be active on the forums on all the coins im intesteded in, I need to pay off my debt and keep the cards mining, which is not always so easy if it gets too hot, and I need to do my 9-17 job to keep the family fed, since I have not taken any profits from my mining for myself yet, and thats okay. As long as im not financially ruined I will continue to do this,.
I have been mining for over a year now, and I just used Defi for the first time yesterday , why? Because I have not had the time to do it, not because im not interested but everything comes with time, as I get around to it.
Do I invest in crypto at all or just mining?
Its all a balance, im currently saving up coins and they are all POW coins, thats
I plan to run nodes on flux and firo, and its gonna be bare metal, im gonna run the node myself, not on some cloud service, since im a hardcore libertarian there is only one way for me, thats the decentralized way.
Why do you mine eth and not the coins you are intested ind?
Makes more money, more money I can use to buy more of the cryptos i like, simple as that.
I think there is something lost very much on the POS guys, mining takes a LOT of effort to ”generate” the coins, this has an impact on the price since it makes it more of a commodity than a stock in a company, also it decentralizes a lot more with GPU’s like you said in the interview, and it gets people like me into the space, and starts learning about the tech, so its a huge gateway into crypto. But at scale its a huge risk, and a huge investment of time and money to make right.
I might have bashed progpow earlier because of the power and heat.
I am all for progpow, i mined raven during the summer last time (more profits than eth), was 40 degrees celcius in my mining room then, at half the wattage i have now.
If and when ETH is gone, im gonna mine a mixed batch of currencies, i will sell some, i will keep some. And if its not profitable to mine, i will have to shut down my 250.000 USD investment and watch it collect dust. All the while still paying insurance, security and accounting………
Just a miners perspective
This is a relative argument. It depends how much a Firo champion can effect favorable change by their influence Vs how much a passive large investor can effect favorable change by supporting price. In reality, it’s going to be price that attracts the smaller yet more numerous Firo champions. Their numbers being the key factor in their influence in effecting large favorable change. Few people are privacy ideologues who are not concerned with seeing their investment increase in value.
Regarding the above numbers. I hope nostalgia for mining isn’t clouding judgement. Why are we so concerned with rewarding inflation equally to folks that are mostly a) not appreciative b) less loyal c) less important for security
With ‘c’ being the most important consideration in my opinion.
Are Firo miners impressive champions of Firo?
If that isn’t the case, it’s not making sense to me, to the point it’s kind of frustrating. I’m saying this because I care about Firo.
If we are still 3-5$ after we have another halving and reward reduction, god help us. We probably wouldn’t even be a top 1000 coin at that point. I can only speak for myself, but I think thats the point where my confidence is so battered I’ll be waiting for pumps above $5 just to let me out.
Using my own emotion as a benchmark tool (which may be flawed), but considering I’ve championed this project to anyone that’l listen for a couple of years now. If I’m beginning to feel like this, if it was me, I would be very concerned about the morale of the wider community. A lot more concerned than we are regarding miners right now.
Assuming miners are not performing an amazing value added service other than mining that I am unaware of. If miners and nodes were equally important from a security perspective, equal distribution would be fair. However since it’s more important to attract nodes than miners for security. Equal distribution would not be fair. The fairest system in my opinion is a meritocracy type of tokenomics.
But maybe I’m missing something?
It isn’t to pass judgment to say miners are bad people but to ask, is the allocation of the block reward fair in relation to the contribution and value they provide to the project.
And yes we know that many miners don’t even know much about what they’re mining and just switch to mine whatever is profitable, they have lots of things to do already. But that’s the point I was making.
Sure I understand your point in that sometimes equality is not equity.
There are a few reasons why I might be more inclined to making a less drastic step first.
Sure, thus far the miner community hasn’t been the biggest supporters of Firo but we need to give them an opportunity to step up. Hopefully with our recent call to action, this will prompt miners to ‘represent’. There are some really loyal miners of FIRO who also champion it. They are a minority of course, but they are there and you’re also seeing them come in here and spend the time to weigh in their opinion even when there are many more profitable coins to mine currently (though many of them don’t even mine $FIRO regularly).
At the end of the day we’re a small part of their portfolio compared to someone who has spent a decent chunk of their money on FIRO. It’s not the same investing in GPU mining hardware if it’s not dedicated specifically to FIRO.
Also I’ve seen some comments by miners on the comments in Youtube that they will ‘hurt’ us if we abandon them ;). While a minority opinion, those kind of threats are silly. We were already 51% attacked before and the miners stood by and watched…(though we had excellent assistance from the mining pools).
That being said, the possibility of masternodes going down are also quite real. Most park it under AllNodes on the basic plan meaning those nodes share infrastructure with others and a mess up on one of those other daemons could crash the entire network. Those going for premium or separate hosting are a minority. While masternodes may provide security >99% of the time, during the time it goes down, the miners will basically be the last line of defense and the hashrate should not be trivial enough to easily nicehash it.
This is not a remote possibility, there was one such incident before in October 2021 where 700+ nodes went down at once due to a problem in the hosting provider which disabled chainlocks for some blocks and left us open briefly for a 51% attack.
So while I agree that miners aren’t earning their keep, you could also say the masternode owners could be doing more too
If the price of Firo decreases, typically so does the hashrate.
And if the price of Firo increases typically so does the hashrate.
What I’m suggesting is you make nodes more attractive to increase capital investment. Allow a surge in demand put buying pressure on Firo and support/increase price.
- There will be a window of vulnerability until price increases.
- However the resulting price increase will again attract a non trivial hashrate.
- The development team will have a budget larger than a shoestring, audits being a particularly important place to over invest.
- Community projects can be funded with less firo donations, making the community matching project more worthwhile.
- Confidence in the future of Firo will be bolstered, thus creating less selling pressure and more buying pressure.
- This then creates a favorable viscous cycle of growth in value, network effects & security both from nodes & and miners.
Does any of this make sense or am I crazy?
Also if the window of vulnerability is a concern, maybe we could be voting on a schedule for reallocation, so the transition creates less shock, and effects can be evaluated before proceeding.
Well development team is best what we have now and they proved to be reliable, so I personally don’t see any issue if development team will have control in deciding which project to fund. In my opinion it is best solution we have right now.