Firo Tokenomics Discussion with upcoming Halving

The Firo team does a lot, even in terms of marketing—from graphic design to appearances in videos. Most projects don’t have this, and prices go up because people with money have the whim to buy the product. Let our Firo team continue this hard work and remain as active as before, improving and modernizing the coin’s functionality for daily use. Personally, I would be delighted with a feature like a savings vault for people who may not necessarily know about mining or how to run a masternode.

I fully agree the team does a lot, this is the major driver of innovation the project has seen. However, targeted social media ads etc is where are missing things. Our videos are not currently reaching the audiences that we need. (Privacy focused individuals and individuals interested in cryptocurrency.)
The coin telegraph article was to counter the current themes about firo but this got poor visibility given the cost.

Targeted YouTube and other social networks are the way to go on this I believe. I already see quite a few targeted ads from other projects appear on mine.

While development is all well and good, we are affectively funding development on other projects also because they can just take the bits they like from the open source code. The project as is stands right now is tech wise very good. The market cap of monero is $2.2 billion. The market is there. We must ask ourselves why we are not taking a bigger slice of that given the tech is there.

Our current approach has been great for development but at the cost of the promotion of the coin. We must change tactic on here, I have been around since the days firo was a top 100 coin. It is sad to see it where it is currently giving the tech and development side. The higher the market cap of firo, the more the funds have in fiat terms for spending.

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if anyone don’t want FIRO to be called as a security

go for 50% master-node
and 50% miners
done

maybe add extra tail emissions

Hey Everyone,

After getting feedback from everyone here and Reuben, I’m going to go into details about our planned time series analysis as this was most likely the least clearest part of our actionable proposal.

For our time series model, we were considering looking into building a multivariate time series model in order to look at how various variables might have an effect on Firo’s price and then help us with some of the longer term simulations we described in the earlier post. In particular, we would consider the following variables:

  • block reward allocation
  • transaction volume
  • Number of masternodes on the network
  • Firo’s hashrate

We should note that time series analysis has its limitations and that at the end of the day, Firo’s price is determined by a lot of factors outside of everyone’s control.


The next bit represents my personal opinion as a follower of Firo and not of that of HashCloak.

In my personal opinion (not the opinion of HashCloak), the Firo community is pretty vibrant and produces competitive research despite limited resources and visibility compared to other similar coins in the crypto ecosystem. As such, I believe the best way to ensure Firo’s longevity is to double down on those aspects in any way necessary. Some more subjective things to focus on that again I personally think would help would be:

  • Do more marketing and community management. Does Firo have a public discord? Does Firo have public and official telegram groups? Does Firo sponsor events in other countries? I think more needs to be done on this aspect
  • Is the dev and research team present at major technical conferences in the space? Are they giving talks? Are they writing about their technical work at Firo? More needs do be done to showcase the people behind Firo and its advancements.
  • Finally, what are miners and masternodes doing to make Firo better? Are they donating to the community fund? Are they getting other miners and masternodes involved? Are they even talking about Firo? As much as it is unpopular to admit in this industry, miners and other protocol-level service providers are very important for the health of not just the network but the community for that chain as well. I think it would be fair to demand a bit more from Firo’s miners and masternodes in terms of what they do to better Firo. From an incentive alignment point of view, it would help them improve their investments and is good for Firo. A win win situation so to speak.
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Miners are selling off every day, which is hindering #Firo’s long-term growth. If #Firo is selling off every day, we will only have fewer and fewer users. Only when the price goes up will people have the confidence to use our products.

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Well I’ve read the selling off of $50K worth of firo for the devs/expenses is absorbed by the market without a problem, then I dont see how its the miners who are hindering the long term growth as the value of all coins minded a month is pretty much the same?

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soon they will go after self-custody as money transmitter
to prevent it we need more adoption
spark-2-spark transaction only chain
p2p and dex and atomic swaps
that’s the only way

Well, if you sell, somebody has to buy.

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and @Cryptoman and some others

Pay attention!
Comparing trading volume and sales volume from miners or developers is extremely misleading.
In fact, these figures are incomparable because the vast majority of transaction volume is made by traders, particularly trading bots. The same trading bots that was sponsored by the Firo team to increase trading volume (HummingBot, for example, and I don’t say here it is a bad thing).

A developer or a miner sells Firo for dollars to pay for rent, food leisure…: he does not buy back Firo and his sale is therefore as much value removed from the Firo ecosystem.
A trader sells Firo and buys back Firo continuously, the value he derives from the Firo ecosystem is not the accumulation of his sales and buys but only the possible profit he obtains from a higher sale of the Firo previously purchase (or a purchase at a lower price than the previous sale). Quite often, to be optimized, trading bots are set on margins that are just above the trading fees they are charged. As their trading volumes are large, their fees are reduced. In the end, we are talking about fees around 0.05% and less. With such fees, bots make money from 0.05% difference.

Taking a 0.1% difference (broad hypothesis), for a trader to withdraw $1 from the Firo ecosystem, it takes around $1,000 in trading volume whereas for a developer or a miner withdraws $1 from the Firo ecosystem, all it takes is 1$ in trading volume.

So, yes, developer and miner sales have a very large impact on Firo’s selling pressure, about 1,000 times larger than the exchange volume argument suggests.

For Firo to survive and develop, you must first give value to Firo and not take it away this value through sales: the simplest way for the moment is to distribute as much as possible of the reward to the masternodes (65 or 70%).

Without any aggression, just a point of view that I hope is impartial.

Note: I try to give figures to establish orders or examples, please do not argue endlessly about the details, what is important is the idea.

May I clarify that the Hummingbot campaign doesn’t reward volume generated but only the liquidity that is placed on the 2 percent bands. This does not in itself increase trading volume but just makes the pair more liquid to encourage others to trade.

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I have a question about the upcoming Firo halving. Our token is also on the Binance Smart Chain (BSC), and I was wondering if it might be worth considering a reward split for a specific Firo pair on this blockchain. Additionally, I’ve always been disappointed that there are no specific yields for XMR on BSC, unless there are some that I’m not aware of. Perhaps FIRO could eventually introduce something similar. I’ve also dreamed of having a stablecoin on a private network, though I realize that might be a highly complex process.

Great question. The BSC Firo is actually issued and backed by native Firo held by Binance so it’s not directly connected to our project.

Firo you can add liquidity to Pancakeswap and set 1% fee range and it’s been decently profitable over the longer time frames with more yield than a masternode.

As for stablecoin on a private network this is what Spark Assets (Spats) is all about which is what we’re doing though it probably makes sense for USDT people to bridge it over.

So, if I get it right, USDT would exist on our network, but the direct swap within it from USDT to Firo would also be feasible, correct?

Sure i mean you can do that without Spats but through other Atomic swap or DEX platforms.

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Yeah I don’t think miners are exerting meaningful sell pressure. It’s just a matter of their role and participation in Firo’s ecosystem.

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Would like to solicit any more feedback!

I’m checking with MAGIC Fund if they can fund the economics audit by @Mikerah and making sure she can extract all the data we need.

Firo need tail emissions

even if we are pragmatic until Firo in Maya DEX, Serai DEX Haveno P2P

Lets go for
50% Master nodes
20% Community Fund
30% Miners

With that more Decentralization since no attack vector of dev fund
Community fund can do the payments
Miners get more so no complains
Firo gets tail emissions for extra security budget

The ROI of a Firo masternode at the moment is about 15.7%, that of a Dash masternode is about 9.2% according to masternodes.online. After the FIRO halving, the ROI becomes 7.85%. The ratio DASH/FIRO is about 16. That is, if one has to choose between running 2 DASH masternodes and 32 FIRO masternodes, the rational option would be to run two DASH masternodes: 2 VPS vs 32 VPS are needed, provided that the current price of FIRO and DASH stay at the same level. This is one more argument to switch to DASH.

With other words, if one has more than 16000 FIRO or $ 27200 to invest into masternodes, it is more profitable to invest to one DASH masternode rather than 16 FIRO masternodes, both from the point of view of the ROI (9.2% vs 7.85%) and hosting fees (1 VPS or 5$ vs 16 VPS or 80$ per month).

DASH offers masternodes with a collateral of 4000 DASH (vs the “conventional” 1000 DASH).

Would it be possible to implement a similar super duper FIRO masternode with a collateral of 2000 - 5000 FIRO? It would decrease the number of the masternodes but should be fine from the security point of view. In the end, we would have both conventional AND super duper masternodes (not OR).