I mean maintaining the transparent layer is still viable and achieves the same goals with less headache and maintenance.
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Thatâs probably better, but it will most likely get to the point where that wonât be good enough.
Firo must maintain the transparent layer, if it guarantees the stability of the project, with minimal impact due to regulations. Although this sets back a bit, stagnates or keeps Firo in the current situation, this is a decision conditioned by the regulations that must be applied out of necessity and there will be an opportunity to make decisions that get the project back on track. In the current situation Firo cannot afford to lose the market in the CEX.
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So one of the exchanges (a major one) has stated that they want a method where there is no interaction needed with the depositor to return the funds if it came from a private transaction, and they wonât accept one where itâs returned via a private transaction 
This is problematic without severe privacy issues unless we do an address type for exchanges where they arenât allowed to unshield into it.
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Like i said they will never be satisfied.
The power that be like Surveillances coin for Masses and Higher Privacy for them self.
They donât care about privacy coin and will stop at nothing to kill it.
They have to maintain nation state Fiat & Cash.
Just go Monero route Firo is already tiny.
Go Full Mandatory Default Private.
And Try to get on DEX as many as You can.
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In my humble opinion this argument is irrefutable, you are absolutely right. However, regarding going to full mandatory default private, donât you consider it risky to go that route right now? What would be the solution to the reduction of the market? What would be the actions to take to (recover) expand the market on DEX?
@jlrmedina everything has benefits and tradeoffs.
By going Full Mandatory Default Private Firo Get to have more incentive to make Firo more decentralized censorship resistance and more private.
Majority of resources will be on DEX and Atomic Swaps and to improve Firo privacy with zero knowledge proofs research.
That way Firo development will be more ground up and will be resistance to nation state.
Hello,
Iâm a new user to forum but i am a long time Firo / Monero miner and crypto privacy enthusiast.
The topic at hand is a crucial one and i felt i have to express my short opinion.
So
Every kind of backdoor or optional privacy will put Firo immediately on par with every single âsemi-privateâ cryptocurrency thus making it useless (Ltc and Zash leading the herd).
Firo MUST continue to follow the privacy by default development regardless of what CEX and the EU demand.
The solution to the delisting problem can only be achieved by forcing third party wallets to implement KYC and static adresses for users depositing privacy crypto onto exchanges. So basically you are shielded by default until you deposit into that third party wallet, which has a contract and is supported by the CEX and from there itâs all transparent in terms that the CEX and institutions know in advance who is the owner of that wallet/adress.
Any other method is a systematic failure of the basic concept of financial privacy.
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Mandatory Privacy By Default at Base Protocol Layer is the only way to move forward if FIRO want to get any true attention among the privacy community.
And if FIRO can get into various DEX and P2P markets like AgoraDesk/LocalMonero and others P2P options
Most de-listing could be mitigated.
Agree with this, my main reason for looking into zcoin last decade was privacy features and the roadmap towards privacy on various layers (e.g. dandelion, helsing) by default.
So I would like to see development in privacy contuinue with full speed such users who are ok to not use CEX can use privacy. (ideally by default) while I understand we cannot cut the ties to CEX.
Personally can´t use Binance any more and doing my small part for adoption by using DEX, spending Firo for travel (personally like locktrip) and leveraging coinpayments for masternode fees etc.
So adoption aka bring your firo to life 
is absolute key and we as community should laserfocus on that while the team can focus on development.
Thanks Reuben and team for the fantastic work you have done over the last 6+ years! I have learnt a lot about privacy, linux, PoW etc in this time.
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We are under some time pressure to make a decision so hope that everyone weighs in their opinions ASAP regardless of which way we go.
Personally, Iâm leaning towards a private by default wallet but still retain the option to be transparent and have a âexchangeâ address type that will allow them to only accept transparent inputs to help exchanges comply with MICA regulations (from feedback from discussions with exchanges). These will have a different prefix to distinguish them but will functionally be almost the same as normal transparent addresses.
These âexchangeâ addresses will not be available on our wallets graphically but can be created from RPC since itâs only intended for those who really need it.
I respect the opinion of those who want us to go mandatory private by default and it is something I still want to strive towards to but with the upcoming launch of Spark and the fragile position we are in, Firo needs to buy some time to build out the DEX infrastructure and support of Spark addresses before we ditch everything completely.
On the plus side, I do think weâll be definitely making mining rewards go into Spark addresses and masternode rewards sometime next year which will definitely boost the anon set and have new supply enter into our shielded pools. We will phase this in a couple of months after Spark goes live. The work required to do this isnât a lot but will require the ecosystem to update.
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I really think your solution is a very nice trade-off.
To send coin on with âexchangeâ address to a CEX, will it need to be done also by RPC call?
i agreed with reuben that, for personal wallet it has to be private by default, and retain the option to be transparent for exchange address in order for them to comply with the regulator.
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To send to an âexchange onlyâ address, the wallet will recognize it and just give you a warning that this address does not accept private inputs.
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So this is my roadmap towards increasing our privacy transaction adoption:
Phase 1:
Exchange addresses implemented (only accepts transparent inputs). This would also not accept mined or masternode payouts as they are considered âprivateâ by regulations. This actually encourages existing miners/masternode providers to install our full wallet rather than just mining directly to an exchange.
Phase 2: (A few months after Spark mainnet activation)
All mining rewards go into Spark addresses
All masternode rewards go into Spark addresses
Phase 3:
Helsing, masternodes now need to be hosted on Spark addresses and not transparent addresses.
Phase 1-3 should be completed in 2024.
Phase 4:
Spark atomic swaps and DEX adoption.
Phase 5:
Spark assets that share anon set with Firo.
Phase 6:
Removal of transparent and exchange only addresses (?) Letâs see how the enforcement of MICA regulations come around and its impact on mandatory private currencies.
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This is a good idea, step by step, towards the final road, if you make mistakes, you can also change the direction in time.
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Just do it.
The plan is perfect, thank you!
I donât like the idea to comply with exchanges or regulations in any way, but I accept it if most of us want
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This sounds like a reasonable approach. My gut feel is we will need to have transparent addresses around for a long time - maybe forever.
Keep up the good work guys.
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